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JMaN2005

Ladder win limit for players

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I've played 3 ladder games today (Spawn1uk, Southvibe, can7ona) and 2 of them (spawn, can7ona) were raged about the loss and turned the conn speed down all the way, eventually disconnecting. I still got my points, but had to wait a while for them to realize i wasn't going to rage quit because of lag.... but surely there is a way to slow this stuff down? Maybe make it to where conn speed can be adjusted by any player not just the host... or take away the conn speed completely for tournies. Once game settings are set, that is where they stay. Something along those lines. Also these guys (sexpro, kaizen, nemesis, steve) open games, and sit and either pretend afk or boot anyone good, and play only subpar players over and over and over. I propose we change the limit that players can play against each other in 1v1 tournies. Used to be 3 times a day and points were not exchanged for any games after that. Kaizen and sexpro having 111 and 75 wins respectively is a joke...

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eventually disconnecting. I still got my points

 

That's a relief :)

 

I propose we change the limit that players can play against each other in 1v1 tournies. Used to be 3 times a day and points were not exchanged for any games after that.

 

I'm not opposed to this change. What do others think?

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Making a ladder to boost the activity and then limiting the amount of games people can play... Afterwards we could turn the ladder off to boost the activity?

 

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funky you dont know the ts community, you dont play the game, you dont know what youre talking about im afraid. who do u see on the ladder pushing for rank, but 1 person. playing mods, ruining the competition for everyone else. mods should never be on any ANY tournament ladder, for any game, thats just common sense.

 

thus xwis removed them from their ladders for a long time, and the ladder flourished.

 

ps : learn to post an image or attach one that doesnt need a magnifying glass to see. its 2015, the internet isnt that hard.

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I know what i'm talking about, you and others cried that there is no activity, and now people are playing more and you all of a sudden want less activity

 

Playing against beginners gives only 2-4 points, if there would be a good player who wins against other good players he could make it to rank #1 with just 10 games since the math gives 15+ points for such games

 

The noob bashing is a problem though, we need to stop that. But stopping it by limiting the activity is a joke

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If mods are going to be on the ladder, they need their separate ladder.

 

I have been on both sides, playing mods and WW maps over the years, and well... the ladder is about determining skill and although there are surely modders with some major skill, the real skill is in Westwood maps, which are much more hard.

 

Couple this with the issue that whoever plays the ladder on mod maps will ALWAYS BAN any good WW players that join, because any good WW player is also good on mods, but rarely the other way around.

 

The main issue I have concern with is as TRZ mentioned, what is point in having a ladder, when the top rank person dodges anyone besides newbs?

 

With the low activity in TS, people like TRZ and Ollie and Kapa should be able to 1v1 each other at least 5 times a day, if not more.  Trust me, it's not like they are easy prey for each other, the more they play, the more the one with even slightly lessor skill is going to loose, and that's what the ladder is all about.

 

If the old limit was 5 a day, then with the current activity my suggestion would be 7 or 10 game a day limit between players.

 

Please split WW and Mod maps into two separate tournies and please implement something that prevents dodgers from becoming rank 1. 

 

Something else we could desparately use is a system that uses the cncnet-client to log lost packets and variable connection speeds between players.  If 7 different player's clients all flag the same person as having the same issues, then maybe that person's login should be flagged for the rest of the month somehow or that player's points for that month not count towards the tourny.

 

With something like a minimum of 5 player's clients required to flag the same person, the rate of error could be very low?

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Playing against beginners gives only 2-4 points, if there would be a good player who wins against other good players he could make it to rank #1 with just 10 games since the math gives 15+ points for such games

 

Nice!

 

The noob bashing is a problem though, we need to stop that. But stopping it by limiting the activity is a joke

 

As well as the disconnection and lagging on purpose.

 

Large majority of TS are actually extremely fair, its always just a few clogs in the wheel that mess TS up, but with the cncnet administration panel we are blessed with, this should be easy fix.

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And just for the record @Funky and Co., I am extremely grateful for cncnet and the ladder as well, but I am here to give my honest feedback as I have been around TS a very long time and have seen just about every angle of it over the years.

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I was already thinking about ways to prevent the noob bashing/dodging, got 2 ideas so far:

 

1. Make the ladder quick match only and let a bot choose the opponent automatically

2. Disallow users with high amount of points to join ladder games of players with low amount of points (need a good number here, +/- 250 ?)

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Strictly auto match would have many drawbacks, and limited high skill from bashing low skill is a good idea, but also something to prevent dodgers would also be nice.

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funky the more you type the more its evident you dont know what youre talking about concerning mods being on a tournament ladder.

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quick match is also a dumb idea, as i dont want to play newbs. and dont want to waste my time with people who dc or change conn speeds etc.

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Strictly auto match would have many drawbacks, and limited high skill from bashing low skill is a good idea, but also something to prevent dodgers would also be nice.

 

2. Disallow users with high amount of points to join ladder games of players with low amount of points (need a good number here, +/- 250 ?)

 

-

Won't be possible to dodge anymore with this, they will be forced to play against good players. Probably going to add this today since it only takes a few minutes to code

 

funky the more you type the more its evident you dont know what youre talking about concerning mods being on a tournament ladder.

 

Are you high or something? I have never said a single word about mods xD I said limiting the activity is a bad idea and we need to find a better solution

 

Removing mod maps can be done, I even made a thread here about this some time ago

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I agree with John. I'm very grateful for the ladder finally coming. And the TS population HAS grown tremendously. I don't mind teaching the newer players or letting them spectate games as long as they don't lag. But quick match would put someone like Kapa against Kaizen and if theyre the only 2 playing then Kapa is gonna get a quick 182937219837291379821 points. I got 43 points for playing players that are either way down in the ranking, or have not played tournies at all. We will get the kinks worked out and figure out the best way to get this going. I don't want to play straight up newbs either, but at the same time, i shouldnt be able to go into Kaizen's game, and play him 100 times. Even if i'm only getting 2 points, thats 200 points for 10 minutes of work at the most. a quickmatch feature could be a cool idea, if its optional. Like we have an option under ladder for quickmatch or regular. that might be a cool feature. But limiting the number of matches one player can play against another, isn't taking away from the population. It's going to increase it. There's going to HAVE to be more players playing on the ladder if that kind of system is implemented.

 

 

on a completely separate note: like last year before I quit, there was a popular thing going around where a player was hosting tournaments on his own  (1v1 && 2v2 exclusively) and the players all pitched in and the winners were going to get a cash prize for 1-3. Something like that could also be really cool. It's all just ideas, i know. But I think that not only would the active players have NO problem throwing some extra money or something for a prize. Also, I think if the older players that were really good heard about this, they would come around again, thus increasing the community even more. Just a thought!

 

 

AND FOR THE LOVE OF CHRIST REMOVE MY CHAT BAN. 2 WEEKS FOR CUSSING IS MORE THAN EXCESSIVE

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Removing mod maps can be done, I even made a thread here about this some time ago

 

I don't know if removing mod maps completely is the best tactic. That would again limit the game and isolate many of the players. Maybe make mods worth less points, or give an entirely separate ladder if thats possible. But as for removing completely, i don't think i like the idea. would make several players not play ladder and possibly quit

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I agree with John. I'm very grateful for the ladder finally coming. And the TS population HAS grown tremendously. I don't mind teaching the newer players or letting them spectate games as long as they don't lag. But quick match would put someone like Kapa against Kaizen and if theyre the only 2 playing then Kapa is gonna get a quick 182937219837291379821 points. I got 43 points for playing players that are either way down in the ranking, or have not played tournies at all. We will get the kinks worked out and figure out the best way to get this going. I don't want to play straight up newbs either, but at the same time, i shouldnt be able to go into Kaizen's game, and play him 100 times. Even if i'm only getting 2 points, thats 200 points for 10 minutes of work at the most. a quickmatch feature could be a cool idea, if its optional. Like we have an option under ladder for quickmatch or regular. that might be a cool feature. But limiting the number of matches one player can play against another, isn't taking away from the population. It's going to increase it. There's going to HAVE to be more players playing on the ladder if that kind of system is implemented.

 

 

on a completely separate note: like last year before I quit, there was a popular thing going around where a player was hosting tournaments on his own  (1v1 && 2v2 exclusively) and the players all pitched in and the winners were going to get a cash prize for 1-3. Something like that could also be really cool. It's all just ideas, i know. But I think that not only would the active players have NO problem throwing some extra money or something for a prize. Also, I think if the older players that were really good heard about this, they would come around again, thus increasing the community even more. Just a thought!

 

 

AND FOR THE LOVE OF CHRIST REMOVE MY CHAT BAN. 2 WEEKS FOR CUSSING IS MORE THAN EXCESSIVE

 

My solution would also stop this problem you did mention, kapa could only play kaizen a few times and then his ranking would be too high and would not be allowed to play against him anymore

 

Don't know about your ban, I thought Rosssi removed it already the other day? Going to check it now

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I agree with John. I'm very grateful for the ladder finally coming. And the TS population HAS grown tremendously. I don't mind teaching the newer players or letting them spectate games as long as they don't lag. But quick match would put someone like Kapa against Kaizen and if theyre the only 2 playing then Kapa is gonna get a quick 182937219837291379821 points. I got 43 points for playing players that are either way down in the ranking, or have not played tournies at all. We will get the kinks worked out and figure out the best way to get this going. I don't want to play straight up newbs either, but at the same time, i shouldnt be able to go into Kaizen's game, and play him 100 times. Even if i'm only getting 2 points, thats 200 points for 10 minutes of work at the most. a quickmatch feature could be a cool idea, if its optional. Like we have an option under ladder for quickmatch or regular. that might be a cool feature. But limiting the number of matches one player can play against another, isn't taking away from the population. It's going to increase it. There's going to HAVE to be more players playing on the ladder if that kind of system is implemented.

 

 

on a completely separate note: like last year before I quit, there was a popular thing going around where a player was hosting tournaments on his own  (1v1 && 2v2 exclusively) and the players all pitched in and the winners were going to get a cash prize for 1-3. Something like that could also be really cool. It's all just ideas, i know. But I think that not only would the active players have NO problem throwing some extra money or something for a prize. Also, I think if the older players that were really good heard about this, they would come around again, thus increasing the community even more. Just a thought!

 

 

AND FOR THE LOVE OF CHRIST REMOVE MY CHAT BAN. 2 WEEKS FOR CUSSING IS MORE THAN EXCESSIVE

 

My solution would also stop this problem you did mention, kapa could only play kaizen a few times and then his ranking would be too high and would not be allowed to play against him anymore

 

Don't know about your ban, I thought Rosssi removed it already the other day? Going to check it now

 

That could work. I think its going take a series of trail and error to get it right, but it will get there with some tweaking. He said he was going to, but that was like 5 days ago, and here I am still unable to talk, be seen in the lobby, or see others in the lobby. :ranting: :ranting: :ranting: :ranting: :ranting: :ranting:

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I think I removed your ban, not sure about it, can you talk now?

 

The update is out now, you can only play against those who have +/- 250 points difference

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i think everything is going well w/this ladder...kaizen is in first place...if you dont like it do something about it like win more games

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the best way to do it and im sorry to say that TRZ is right cause F that guy... is to make it a limit of games u can play vs a person in a row or in a time period or they will just get free points for ever. but the mod map thing drives me nuts no mod maps for tournys that was along time ago and i still agree with it but... no there is more mod mappers then WW map players and thats a hard fact. i really wish they would just learn real maps but everyone is stuck in their ways cause i know WW mappers dont want to play mod maps.

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I cannot join any tournament games & no one can join mine. Someone deserving should be rank 1.

 

 

I hope you see my vision.

 

*EDIT*

 

@JMaN2005 how dare you mention 'nemesis'? He is fair & plays all.

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One ladder for WW maps and one ladder for Mod maps. That keeps both sides of the TS community happy, it is also much easier to manage and save's having to create a list of sanctioned mod maps that do not contain game modifications i.e. speed. Newb bashing is a problem but at the moment there arent enough players competing in the ladder to ensure that newb bashing doesn't pay. The more players start to play competitively, the more points the better players will be able to accumulate from playing the players around them which will outweigh the 250 games, 100% win ratio at 1 point each. Perhaps a way to remove the bias towards newb bashing is to make the number of points lost for playing someone around your rank less and simply award the winner more.

 

Also, is there currently a time limit on tournie games, i.e. game only gets recorded / a win or loss is awarded if it lasts over a certain time? In the WW days this was 3 mins to allow you to quit if the game was horribly laggy and to put off people giving masses of free wins (would take a lot of time to amass lots of wins at 1 point per win every 3 mins).

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My solution would also stop this problem you did mention, kapa could only play kaizen a few times and then his ranking would be too high and would not be allowed to play against him anymore

 

Don't know about your ban, I thought Rosssi removed it already the other day? Going to check it now

That should be with some conditions though.  I wouldn't want to fully prevent players from playing one another, thats a good example of killing the ladder. We shouldn't fully restrict someone from playing vs another player because their ranking is too high, ELO sorts that out anyway by only awarding 1 or 2 points?  If it doesn't then let them play, but only award a few points.

 

I don't think there should be a win limit that restricts you from playing or counting, the ladder isn't big enough. Though maybe after X wins the point calculation should alter slightly so its not so beneficial winning against the same person over and over in the same day.

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