Unit discussion in TS: I: Low and Middle Class Vehicles

[Hungry Mike]

HI :).

Its an old discussion, but i doubt that some units are not worth to be in TS.
First of all  a list of these units:

Nod:
a) Buggy:  A) Mod/"CncNet" Maps: aa) On Giants: 1.) Use frequancy: 2/10 Its very rarely, that someone uses them. Only players in my knowledge, who use them, are Majin Sandy, Mike Pence and Stukade, although Pence uses them as much as every game.  2.) Effectiveness: 8/10 In early steps of Giants, its all about scouting. And many players dont care enough for gate defense. So buggies fit perfectly for that purpose and can win games. Sometimes, you can attack later some engies or annoy gdi and opponents, which costs them focus on attacking. And if they fail, you only wasted 500-1500 $. They can help in a inf rush against gate and for defending against ghosts. Other than that, they are weak.  bb) On  GSO: 1.) Use frequancy: 0,5/10 Noone uses them, except if they lost anything but warfac and are in a need for anti-inf or want to troll. 2.) Effectiveness: 1/10: In Gso, you already scout with inf or dont need to scout. YOu dont have the money to afford a buggy to scout early, and later you dont need it. Buggies can help in inf battle, if you micro well, but only 1 or 2; you dont have the time to build them tho. B) WW maps: aa) Terrace: 1.) 1/10 In 1vs1, they are used sometimes for scouting, other than that, noone uses them. 2.) 4/10 They can be ok for scouting, but Nod players cant afford to buy them against Gdi most of the time. Useless in combat. bb) Forest Fires: 1.) 2/10 In safer positions, some players use them sometimes to scout as Nod.  2.)  5/10 They can be very helpful, when you have only Nod in attacking spots; but you have to take controll of one pathway first. Completely useless for combat.

b) Bikes: A) CncNet Maps: aa) Giants: 1.) Use frequancy: 1/10: Noone uses them. Only very rarely for diss defense or scouting. Tomatoczar loves them tho. 2.) Effectiveness: 3/10. They get destroyed so easily by the gate defending inf, that they are useless to scout; they can be ok against disses, but are most of the times not powerful enough for the first diss attack. Useless for attack, too. bb) Gso: 1.) 3/10: Happens somtimes, that Nod players bike rush against harvs/mcv/refs. 2.) 3/10. Art will stop them easily, lasers, inf too. But in the right circumstances, if player gets 2vs1ed or is weak on defense of his distant base (happens often), then they can be very good. B) WW maps aa) Terrace 1.) 3/10 Uses for def against diss or scouting, only very rarely for harv harass or attack. 2.) 3/10 They are ok against disses, because they have speed, but they are very weak against tits or inf. Can be useful for harv harass or noob trolling. bb) FF 1.) Like Terrace 2.) 5/10 Works better on a big map like FF, especially the diss def.

c) Tick Tanks: A) aa) Giants 1.) Use frequancy: 10/10 If you play Giants, you will see tick tanks automatically; although still more players prefer Art over Tanks, it has changed a bit in favor of tanks lately. Only def usage. Hitman builds a hord of them to help his front men, Stylewarz makes a big micro defense map with deployed tanks, lasers, silos and roket men, Judas likes them, too. 2.) Effectiveness10/10 Tanks are very good to defend single strong units like C/Cs or disses and also good against devils, if you have enough tanks in a spot. Tanks make quick damage, while Art fails against C/Cs and Disses. They are much cheaper then art, you dont have to deploy them first, and they are much better against early rushes. bb) Gso 1.) 5/10 They are used to defend together with lasers against tit attacks. 2.) 5/10 Good for quick def against tits, but tits are mostly attacking together with inf, which makes tanks ineffective. Attacks with ticks fail most of the time because of art, lasers or inf, although, deployed, ticks can be dangereos for a base. B) aa) Terrace: 1.) 7/10 Used for def against Tits, DIsses and Mammuths. 2.) 5/10 Arts are better than tanks on terr. bb) FF: 1.) Like Terr 2.) 7/10 Can be very useful for defense. 

d) Repair Vehicle: A) aa) Giants 1.) 5/10 They get used for banshee repairing. 2.) 8/10 Can be very important, if you rely on bans. If not, Repair vehicles are not important. bb) Gso 1.) 4/10 Used to repair art, sometimes vehicles in general. 2.) 7/10 Good for art repair, but it takes a while, until you can afford them as nod player. With good micro, you can come back in an art fight. B aa) Terr 1.) 5/10 Like Giants/Gso 2.) 6/10 Like Giants/Gso, but you cant build banshees that easily. bb) FF: 1.) + 2.) Like Giants/Gso/Terr

e) Artillery: A) aa) Giants: 1.) 10/10 A giants game = Artillery 2.) 6/10 Overrated. Only if you have the time to play Sim City and bunker, they are cost effective compared to tanks. You dont need as much of them, when you have an emp. While building them, you dont build attack units. Art is very good against devils and Cyborg/inf rush tho, weak against C&Cs and disses. bb) Gso 1.) 10/10 2.) 10/10 Very useful to get controll over the map, to defend against tits and any sort of things, to attack inf, to attack emp, to base creap, and so on. B aa) Terr 1.) 10/10 2.) 10/10 Like Gso  bb) FF: 1.) 7/10 You have to be fast in FF, many players decide to use some art, but more tanks or rokets or sometimes bikes for def. Only on close spots, people use them for attack. 2.) 6/10 Like Giants, but you dont have the money like there. They get more useful in later game, when you have to expand.

f) Sensor: A) aa) Giants: 1.) 9/10 Almost anyone builds them. 2.) 9/10 You can see subterrianian units with them and emp them, before they are in your base (which will prevent the emp from opening up your stealth gens). You can scout with them by crushing gate defending inf. Ah: And you can see, when someone stealth-tank-trolls . bb) Gso: 1.) 1/10 You almost never see them on GSO. 2.) Because you have no time for them, subs are not that effective and map is so small, you can see subs with your very eyes, before they go underground. B) aa) Terr: 1.) 2/10 If opponent is nod, many build them. But Nod vs Nod is a rarity. 2.) 1/10- 10/10 If someone is Nod, perfect: If not: You are a noob! bb) FF: 1.) + 2.) Like Terr. 

GDI:

a) Wolverine: A) aa) Giants: 1.) 0/10 Noone builds them. 2.) 0,5/10 They can be useful against ghosts (lol) or to help inf rush gate, but other than that: Wasted money. bb) Gso: 1.) 3/10 Sometimes, people build them. 2.) 6/10 They are underestimated. Good together with inf to win the first inf fight or to assault at opponent after you won the first inf fight (with good micro). Good together with inf to help tits, too. But only, of course, in early game. B) Terr: 1.) 1/10 Only used very very rarely for scouting or if you are in need against inf. 2.) 2/10 Most of the time, you need tits after first inf fight, so there is no time, money and need for wolves. Useless for scouting (too weak and slow compared to buggies). FF: 1.) 1/10 Like Terr. 2.) 2/10 Can be good, if you are in need against inf (which can happen more often in close spots). Other than that, a waste! Ah: And a perfect troll unit  

b) Titan: A) Giants: 1.) 10/10 Perfect for def. 2.) 7/10 Good for def, but weak for attack. Gso: 1.) 10/10 GSO = Tits 2.) 10/10 Great unit for attack and def. But lasers, rokets, rpgs, naders and emps can be annoying. So make sure, you have inf surrounding them. Solution: Move through tib xD. B) Terr: 1.) 10/10 Like GSO 2.) 10/10 Like Gso, with the difference, that Nod is even weaker on terr! Black ("Titanjoe") felt in love with them, Sky, Bud and Rob like them, as well. FF: 1.) 10/10 2.) 8/10 Good for def and good for massive assault, but weak in the early game (which most of the time decides FF), because of disses.

c) Apc: Giants: 1.) 6/10 Firestar uses them constantly. Other Gdi players like to use them, too. 2.) 9/10 Very good to crush inf at gate and scout, but not as fast as buggies, so they get outlasered. Gso: 1.) 3/10 2.) 5/10 No time or money for it, although you can use them for the classic engi rush (nostalgia) or to crush inf or for ghosts.... Slower on tib. B) Terr: 1.) 2/10 Very rarely used. 2.) 5/10 Good for engi rush or crush inf, when in need. Not cost effective for scouting, but good tho. FF: 1.) 4/10 Fits better on a big map 2.) 7/10 Fits better for a big map with water.

d) Sensor: 10/10 and 10/10 if your opponent is Nod, 0/10 and 0/10 if not (but can be used for scouting on Giants, so there: 3/10).

e) Hover: Giants: 1.) 5/10 Used for guard defense. 2.) 9/10 Perfect for bunkering and defending. Better than Titan for that. GSO: 1.) 1/10 Almost never used. 2.) 5/10 Good for defending against Helis or Jjs (lol) and ok against bombers, can be ok for attack against harvs or attack support, too, if opponent has weak def. Other than, they are s***. Terr: 1.) 1/10 Like Gso 2.) 4/10 Like Gso, but completely useless for attack, good for harv defense and harv harass. FF: 1.) 2/10 FF has water, so they are used more often. 2.) 6/10 Good for defense, can harv harass nicely or destroy bridges.

What do you think?

 

 

Edited April 14, 2019 by OnePostPony

[Humble]

On maps like Terraces or Forest Fires with all good players, you will almost never see anyone making cyborgs, buggy, obelisk, stealth, medic, or wolverine, unless maybe its on vet/balance versions of said maps.

Bikes have their use in early game / combo attacks.  Hovers are good on maps like FF that have water entrances to bases, or for defense.

[Tibermach]

yeh on maps like the 3 maps we play... we never use said units... lets not play other plays where they maybe more applicable... just mod it all instead....

 

also giants isnt worth to be in ts... how can u even compare units on a botched out map like that ?

 

scenario specific units.  play 1 scenario get one specific unit... ughhh .... maps where you have low tib a repair vehicle will be more valuable.... on giants u get a million quid why even repair bans u can build that many so the map renders it more useless

give up trying to fix stuff and figure out another way around the problem... strategies... play a different map... try a different combo.. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Hungry Mike]

Giants is much more like TD and RA, and TS follows them. So its in fact a sin against C&C to say Giants is not worth to be in Ts. Giants fixes the extreme unballance between Gdi and Nod (money, energy). And which game has only 1 map to play and is good? Its just some old players clinging on their Terrace stuff. But it doesnt make you smart: You wont be capable of being a RA or TD pro ;).

[Holland]

Nice summary pony. U can tell you love the game ?

 

They are made for the missions too. And so i guess a reason for things not being perfect. The low class units might come in handy very rarely, but theyre still fun. It might be cheaper to have buggies and wolverines waypoint guard a large area against scouters just cuz theyre faster then inf.  Im happy they left alot moddable for us tho. I recommend anyone that loves the game to learn modding and then play the map. Many have done it, there are dozens of versions of popular maps that have the creators wishing changes. To me thats a big part of what makes cnc games so special.

And also i have this weird thought that the game would be unsuccessful if things were perfect. Seeing room for improvement can inspire you somehow

[c0rpsmakr]

On 4/19/2019 at 6:20 AM, OnePostPony said:

Giants is much more like TD and RA, and TS follows them. So its in fact a sin against C&C to say Giants is not worth to be in Ts. Giants fixes the extreme unballance between Gdi and Nod (money, energy). And which game has only 1 map to play and is good? Its just some old players clinging on their Terrace stuff. But it doesnt make you smart: You wont be capable of being a RA or TD pro ;).

No, giants does not fix anything, in fact it makes things worse. Making a map with a single narrow entrance, close to infinite power for one power plant, and enough money from one load of tiberium for any person who's never played TS before to not go poor, just makes for an awful game. 

There is no money/"energy" imbalance between the factions, and there's a reason us "old" players use Terrace, and I'll break it down for you since you seem to be completely unaware of basically everything....

Terrace is a medium-range map that has open terrain, which makes it a great map to utilize both short-game and long-game tactics. There aren't a whole lot of maps that allow this flexibility, although there are other good maps to play that are more balanced and terrace constantly does get boring.

Also, you're playing TS, not RA or TD. The reason you don't see many people migrating from TS to those games is because of the lack of depth to them when compared to TS, it's far from a "skill" factor, as I'd be willing to bet you've never played a game on TS with people who know what they're doing.

[Hungry Mike]

7 hours ago, c0rpsmakr said:

No, giants does not fix anything, in fact it makes things worse. Making a map with a single narrow entrance, close to infinite power for one power plant, and enough money from one load of tiberium for any person who's never played TS before to not go poor, just makes for an awful game. 

There is no money/"energy" imbalance between the factions, and there's a reason us "old" players use Terrace, and I'll break it down for you since you seem to be completely unaware of basically everything....

Terrace is a medium-range map that has open terrain, which makes it a great map to utilize both short-game and long-game tactics. There aren't a whole lot of maps that allow this flexibility, although there are other good maps to play that are more balanced and terrace constantly does get boring.

Also, you're playing TS, not RA or TD. The reason you don't see many people migrating from TS to those games is because of the lack of depth to them when compared to TS, it's far from a "skill" factor, as I'd be willing to bet you've never played a game on TS with people who know what they're doing.

1) 95 % of TS players play Giants these days. How can  a very fun game be "awful"? What is the purpose of a game? Fun or getting the illusion to be smart, if you can push some buttons? If you want to prove your intelligence ONLY, use your real life for it. You can do both tho in a fun game; and there many shit giants players, but some good. Momo for example is an elite giants player.

2) How much energy does a stealth generator, a bunch of lasers or an obelisk need compared to a rpg? Thats the reason, why noone uses stealth or obelisks in Terr! But both are - if you can build them - very helpful for Nod. And money: If GDi fails inf rush, they just tit rush; and if they fail with tit rush, they diss rush, and so on. Anyone knows that Nod is much weaker than Gdi on Terr. Ask the best of the best, Zen. Why are 95 % of Terr players Gdi?

3) Which other maps do you mean? FF? And then? You cant even name them, because noone plays them, because all the WW players are stuck to Terr.

4) Very few people are migrating from RA or TD to TS, too. Thats not an argument. Well, RA is mostly tank and building rushing, thats true; despite that, it can be hard to be such a "machine" like Ora-Ford is. So ok, RA is not that deep, but it can be hard. TD on the other hand is very deep, because of the endless amount of maps, possible strats, importance of Micro and Macro, and so on. And in both games, there is no money or energy problem. While the factions are unbalanced too (Allies are better on watter maps, Sowjets on anything else; GDI is weak on open maps in TD and in short game), its not so extreme, that noone can even use a faction, if he wants to be good. But according to you, only Terr and WW maps are good, and its a fact that Nod is much weaker than Gdi on these, so anyone who wants to be "good" has to play GDI. And thats just destroying C&C. Giants fixes this extreme unbalance and repairs the game. We can all thank the moders of Giants! We have now much more choices, and when you like Terr, you can play Terr, when not, then not. Terr can be fun, Giants can be, fun, Ts IS fun :D.

Edited April 22, 2019 by OnePostPony

[Holland]

Lol. I agree with both of you. Playing Terrace with the pro's will make you experience tibsun on its fullest, how amazing the game strategies are. It will give you a true satisfied fullness of what a game has to offer. You can't find that in many other games. Giants is fun ofcourse, like u said cuz ts is awesome. But experiencing terrace games is like no other. As a map/mod maker i honestly have to say that.

[c0rpsmakr]

I repeat, there is no energy/money imbalance among the factions. GDI and NOD both require a lot of power for their high-tech buildings, the reason NOD sams go offline when on low power is because nod can spam them much faster than gdi, and nod sams are more accurate than gdi's sams. Again, you don't play enough with decent players on official maps to have any sort of understanding of it, so you can't say why you think there are fewer nod players on terrace. Nod is a much harder faction to learn and be adequate with than gdi, and its not because of your presumed imbalance of energy/money.....

Maps like Tib Forest, Pit or Plateau, River Runs Near It, or even the official map version of your beloved giants- Night of the Mutants.... among many others are all viable alternatives, and yet ALL official maps are better than that long-distance, one entrance, 3453530 power from one power plant, 2350235235 money from a lone load of tiberium, stealth-sam-bans and imaginary rules, piece of trash map....... speaking as someone who's been playing for 20 years on both official and mod maps, past and present.....

And "proving intelligence"...... what are you even talking about?

 

You're just not going to get it.

Edited April 22, 2019 by c0rpsmakr

[9LivesCatFood]

On 4/15/2019 at 3:50 AM, Humble said:

On maps like Terraces or Forest Fires with all good players, you will almost never see anyone making cyborgs, buggy, obelisk, stealth, medic, or wolverine, unless maybe its on vet/balance versions of said maps.

Bikes have their use in early game / combo attacks.  Hovers are good on maps like FF that have water entrances to bases, or for defense.

people often use cyborgs, buggies, medics, and wolverines. a lot of people send medics with ghost. buggies and wolverines are great for scouting especially if weed is in the middle of the map. a lot of people also use cyborgs for scouts. ill admit tho i only use obelisks to zap newbs at their base or as defense when they suck bad just for fun. same with stealth tanks to mess with newbs. all the units have their place. you need units to mess with newbs. nothing funnier than buggy or jj spamming a newb.

 

red alert is a tank spamming q spamming manual labor single click build fest usually on unlimited money maps spamming factories to spam even faster. its a chore of endurance. tiberian sun is a casual game requiring much less micro and effort. more focused on tactics rather than raw micro and spam. altho the game is glitchy and never going to be fixed because players are stubborn id say most people appreciate the balance of tiberian sun.

Edited April 22, 2019 by 9LivesCatFood

[Humble]

medics with ghost is almost never more effective than gs with fodder unless you are playing a low-skilled player or they have no defense in their base.  cyborgs are slightly effective on giants if you are playing new players.  no body uses cyborgs to scout in any reasonably skill-leveled game and gets away with it.  buggies are used as a scout and nothing more.  wolverines are garbage all around and serve no purpose.  a titan would do better squishing inf than  a wolverine would ever do shooting it.  obelisks are garbage unless you are playing a player at significantly lower skill than you, just watch c0rps play 1v1 as nod (he is good at it), unless he is way better than his opponent, you won't see obelisk, he will invest instead in expanding and worth-while defensive units / offensive attacks.  stealth tanks serve no purpose unless you are playing someone with absolutely no clue, they are fragile and do such low damage it is a total waste of money, not to mention how slow they stealth/un-stealth.  jj is a good scouting unit, and if you catch someone off guard a jj rush can be decent, unless vs high-level players then they stop it ez.

 

if you think red alert requires more micro than TS, you are not playing TS right.  Sure, ra2 is micro intense by the looks of it, but you are obviously clueless do any real intense ts gameplay which anyone can see watching any of the hundreds of videos you have deleted over the years.  if you get a nice long 30-40 minute game with all good players then you will be scrolling around and clicking your ass off, having to time multiple things at once like co-op attacks and attack/defend same time.  based on your game-play it would make sense why you would think this, since you don't seem to even know how to inf rush correctly.  the only thing casual about ts is your lack of skill-set and acceptance of staying were you are at, coupled with your grand delusions of ever being decent at the game other than the rare lucky eng attack vs almost always some lack-luster player no one cares about.

all of your posts show how far off you are from reality and really put things in perspective.  that is why you can keep changing your log however often you want and it is only a matter of time before people quickly realize who you are.  your next login should be '99logsno1cares'

the game has very few glitches thanks to all CNCNET's hard work, kudos to them for that!

On 4/22/2019 at 3:52 PM, c0rpsmakr said:

I repeat, there is no energy/money imbalance among the factions....

hilarious coming from the guy that seriously suggested a way to balance NOD would be making their power plants cheaper.  yikes.

Edited April 30, 2019 by Humble

[Hungry Mike]

7 hours ago, Humble said:

medics with ghost is almost never more effective than gs with fodder unless you are playing a low-skilled player or they have no defense in their base.  cyborgs are slightly effective on giants if you are playing new players.  no body uses cyborgs to scout in any reasonably skill-leveled game and gets away with it.  buggies are used as a scout and nothing more.  wolverines are garbage all around and serve no purpose.  a titan would do better squishing inf than  a wolverine would ever do shooting it.  obelisks are garbage unless you are playing a player at significantly lower skill than you, just watch c0rps play 1v1 as nod (he is good at it), unless he is way better than his opponent, you won't see obelisk, he will invest instead in expanding and worth-while defensive units / offensive attacks.  stealth tanks serve no purpose unless you are playing someone with absolutely no clue, they are fragile and do such low damage it is a total waste of money, not to mention how slow they stealth/un-stealth.  jj is a good scouting unit, and if you catch someone off guard a jj rush can be decent, unless vs high-level players then they stop it ez.

1) Medics with Ghost on GIants or in GSO is by far more effective than Medics with Fodder in early game.

2) Reasonably skill-leveled games: Well, games with Hitman, who is elite (and by far better than you xD), included cyborgs to scout. Cyborgs work even with skill-leveled players, thats why guys like ViscOwner,  NodBR or Cabal use them so often. Later in game, they can scout via sub. And you can build a big cyborg army, destroy emp via banshees and then completely elimante the opponents base (as Zoom3000 loves it to do).

3) Wolverines are underestimated in GSO. It can be better to build one Wolverine first than one Titan to overrun the opponents inf and, if he has one tit, the titan.

4) If guys micro well, titans cant squish inf well. MammyMk one time needed 2 minutes to squish 3 soldiers with tits, and Mammy rekt many pros ;).

5) We are talking here about low and middle class vehicles, not defrense structure like Obelisks and not high tech vehicles like Stealth tanks ;).

6) JJ rush is 99% of time shit. Even against noobs. But a good troll attack :D.

7 hours ago, Humble said:

if you think red alert requires more micro than TS, you are not playing TS right.  Sure, ra2 is micro intense by the looks of it, but you are obviously clueless do any real intense ts gameplay which anyone can see watching any of the hundreds of videos you have deleted over the years.  if you get a nice long 30-40 minute game with all good players then you will be scrolling around and clicking your ass off, having to time multiple things at once like co-op attacks and attack/defend same time.  based on your game-play it would make sense why you would think this, since you don't seem to even know how to inf rush correctly.  the only thing casual about ts is your lack of skill-set and acceptance of staying were you are at, coupled with your grand delusions of ever being decent at the game other than the rare lucky eng attack vs almost always some lack-luster player no one cares about.

all of your posts show how far off you are from reality and really put things in perspective.  that is why you can keep changing your log however often you want and it is only a matter of time before people quickly realize who you are.  your next login should be '99logsno1cares'

the game has very few glitches thanks to all CNCNET's hard work, kudos to them for that!

7) I didnt say, Red Alert requires more micro than TS. I said the opposite: Its micro is simple (tank rushing, q-moving), its macro can be hard. Ts is by far more micro intense, no discussion about that.

8 ) Wow, so much ANGER! I take these personal attacks from you just with a smile . Because, sadly, i won against you in some FF and giants games; but when you win 2 or 3 games on duelling islands with using bugs (emp bug on bridge or inf luck) and overpowered gdi as a guy, who plays this game for ever, you call me names. That shows how "humble" you are.

9) Few glitches? Yeah, like when the sub gets emped, it gets out of the map and vanishes (giants)...

7 hours ago, Humble said:

On 4/22/2019 at 9:52 PM, c0rpsmakr said:

I repeat, there is no energy/money imbalance among the factions....

hilarious coming from the guy that seriously suggested a way to balance NOD would be making their power plants cheaper.  yikes. 

I never said make the power plants cheaper, i said, give them more energy. Well thats the prob: Guys like Zen, the real elite, all use GDI, because they quiet frankly admit, that Nod is shit against GDI on open maps like Terrace. Its even common sense. Its a reason, why TD and RA players didnt like the game.

10) You ignored the fact, that calling giants or GSO bad is a sin to C&C. RA1 had the same amount of ore/tib. TD had the same amount of tib on certain maps. GIants and GSO are much more familiar to RA. And in TD, there are low money maps (which are quiet similar to Terrace) and big money maps. So its just tradition. If you call Giants or GSO players skillless, you call all TD and RA1 players skillless, too. 

[Humble]

Obviously delusional ^

[Holland]

@OnePostPony Play with them for a little bit bro. Its really cool. I've also only played gso and giants for the last few years, but you'll notice how watered-down those maps actually are. Spec them, ask for tips or to get coached, you will find many many great strategies are being used that you'll never find in mod maps. Or just watch some of the recent terrace videos, or the new Pressure map by Humble, just observe without any judgement. Empty your mind and watch their techniques, in spec mode you can see what theyre building by clicking their factories and by selecting their units you can see where theyre commanded to go and you will notice the max use of hotkeys: Q-ing, selling, place/repeat building.. the way the handle their infs, retreat scouts, hunt scouts, build orders, bomb incoming titans, manage 3 attacks and defence all at once. Communicating on voice chat it becomes even more interesting, sharing controll when your dead or dont need a team of units no more and let ur allie use them, expanding tricks, harvester tricks, etc etc..there are so many skills to learn.. Its a true one-of-a-kind game with skills to look forward to to learn.. or stay with gso and giants and program yourself that foundation. I know most pro's dont appreciate the avarage laggy players and or low skilled so you need a (normal) decent PC and be eager to learn. They'll give you a chance. It helps not to be cocky/ empty your mind

[Hungry Mike]

14 hours ago, Holland said:

@OnePostPony Play with them for a little bit bro. Its really cool. I've also only played gso and giants for the last few years, but you'll notice how watered-down those maps actually are. Spec them, ask for tips or to get coached, you will find many many great strategies are being used that you'll never find in mod maps. Or just watch some of the recent terrace videos, or the new Pressure map by Humble, just observe without any judgement. Empty your mind and watch their techniques, in spec mode you can see what theyre building by clicking their factories and by selecting their units you can see where theyre commanded to go and you will notice the max use of hotkeys: Q-ing, selling, place/repeat building.. the way the handle their infs, retreat scouts, hunt scouts, build orders, bomb incoming titans, manage 3 attacks and defence all at once. Communicating on voice chat it becomes even more interesting, sharing controll when your dead or dont need a team of units no more and let ur allie use them, expanding tricks, harvester tricks, etc etc..there are so many skills to learn.. Its a true one-of-a-kind game with skills to look forward to to learn.. or stay with gso and giants and program yourself that foundation. I know most pro's dont appreciate the avarage laggy players and or low skilled so you need a (normal) decent PC and be eager to learn. They'll give you a chance. It helps not to be cocky/ empty your mind

Terrace and FF can be fun, absolutely. Its about players thinking they are better people, if they play Terr instead of Giants; and thats rediculous. I saw many Terr players fail in Giants/GSO. Even the best of the best, like TopRush or Zenetusken, lost on Giants with Diss rush. I find Giants/GSO much more fun than Terrace right now and i dont think they are watered-down. If you are in a GSO-mood, you can play hours with having fun :D. I dont get this whole discussion, frankly. If you have fun, play it - whether its Terr, FF, Giants, GSO, RA1, TD or even Dune ;).

Lets just focus on the topic: Low and middle class vehicles. Do you have some other thoughts about them? Other ratings? Other tactics? Then share

Edited May 1, 2019 by OnePostPony

[X3M]

My 2 cents.

When I look at these games. I look at every aspect. Are units useful or not? How is the economy?
Keep in mind, playing the game as intended by the designers is important.
But also that the community has its own way to play these games.

TS and Red Alert are played completely different these days as how the designers intended.
Which I don't mind. But it certainly makes a lot of units obsolete in the long run.

Also, keep in mind that if you use only 1 or 2 of a specific unit every game. They aren't useless. In fact, they are the most useful in their respective amount.
Infantry or fast unit scouts.
That one detector.
2 to 3 carryalls.
A squad of 4 stealth tanks.
MK2 accompanied with some disruptor tanks carried by those carryalls.

I see the discussion spark every time for every game. That certain units are useless. But useful to others.
The biggest difference between the 2 parties is the way how they play.
One side plays as intended by the designers.
The other side plays with certain things maxed out. Micro skill/depletion economy/1 type strategy etc.
It also depends on the games and even the maps.

Both sides have their own rights to be right in their own perspective.
But please see each other side as well. It will be much more constructive on both your opinions and skills in the games.

I hardly play TS in multiplayer. But have done so with TD.
And every, I mean really EVERY unit in TD has been at one point useful to me. Even the Chem-troopers and the Artillery of NOD saved the day for me at a certain point. Even the choice between a sandbag and chain fence was obvious to me in their respective strategic purpose. O god, I still remember the accusing salty response of that guy

Play the game differently. And you will see, other units show more use.

[Holland]

Nice1

Yeah Pony, ive also beat pro's on giants lol. But let them play another one with you (let him know the mods) and you'll just never win, even with all the 'rules' in giants lol. But if you do win they might enjoy it for a little bit, but will quickly retreat to westwood maps cuz of all the limitations giants has.

On topic, sure. But i don't put my shoes in the same closet as my clothes. Yet they make the full picture together. 

I somehow have a fascination about wolverine. Its meant for mission maps, but the uselessness of it in multiplayer maps opens a dimension for modders. 

I guess thats all i have to say. The way the game was intended like x3m described is limited ofcourse to the makers research and creativity. Then, the people form the game. So its a good reason to listen to the pro's. And ofc look beyond ego lol 

[Hungry Mike]

I beat the "pros" on giants so often, that the "pros" RUN :D. So dont go on with "who plays Terr is better", because it isnt true. Let corpsmaker play against Momo on Giants 6 games, he will lose BADLY. And Giants has no "limitations", it makes the game fair by weakining Gdi. And we dont have to "listen to the pros".

We have to have fun, thats all.

 

[Holland]

Thaha ok. I would enjoy to see proof of that. Its just that these guys are so experienced, they click so fast, they scroll so fast, have absolute control over everything so skilled, you can't top that. Giants could be seen in a way as a runaway from that skill. But if they decide to get used to giants, very quickly you won't stand a chance no more. It will be like 20 yrs vs 5 years of experience. Theres no way dude.

But yeah i agree its still about the fun. But commenting this message is fun too ? now i feel like playing some giants and sneak some stealth stanks in lololol

[TheGreyOne]

On ‎5‎/‎3‎/‎2019 at 10:19 PM, OnePostPony said:

I beat the "pros" on giants so often, that the "pros" RUN :D. So dont go on with "who plays Terr is better", because it isnt true. Let corpsmaker play against Momo on Giants 6 games, he will lose BADLY. And Giants has no "limitations", it makes the game fair by weakining Gdi. And we dont have to "listen to the pros".

We have to have fun, thats all.

 

 

Just because they play terrace doesn't mean they're pro's lol.  They're aren't many of us left. The current best Giants player in a 1v1 by far is firestar3d and even he wont last past 15min against me or c0rps. Momo? Give me a break; he will get demolished by a skilled terrace player even with all the rules set in place for the giants player..

 

[Hungry Mike]

On 5/6/2019 at 5:15 AM, TheGreyOne said:

 

Just because they play terrace doesn't mean they're pro's lol.  They're aren't many of us left. The current best Giants player in a 1v1 by far is firestar3d and even he wont last past 15min against me or c0rps. Momo? Give me a break; he will get demolished by a skilled terrace player even with all the rules set in place for the giants player..

 

And you will be easy cake for Firestar or Momo on Giants ?