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Ladder Tester
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Everything posted by RaVaGe

  1. You're welcome to play me or watch me play as Yuri with those changes, I have no problem displaying how the changes simply change the Yuri meta as opposed to making it weak. All of it is against towards the Yuri army and none of the other factions.
  2. This makes a lot of sense, because all games were released perfectly balanced and it's not a widely known fact that Westwood didn't have the time to fully refine Yuri's Revenge prior to release, but at this point I'm going to have to stop you and regretfully say... I appreciate your feedback, however it's very clear that you haven't tried none of these changes out against any competent player and are evidently just describing your assumptions based on some fantasy you've concocted in your head. When you get the chance to play at least two handfuls of games on a variety of map sizes against some one of reasonable skill, fell free to reply constructively, until that point I can't take your replies seriously. Also please learn to quote properly, it's exhausting to read posts like that. Yes, I do, I tell them to go learn to play. So that I can watch them struggle as Allied.
  3. I didn't bother wasting time easing the ~5 Yuri players into the new changes and its the same Yuri players who are backlashing.
  4. That's how all those changes came to be, just because they are presented to you in a bunch doesn't mean I just pulled them out of my ...
  5. Either multi-engi or allow balance changes that move the engi to be available after service depot for example, which was a popular change in the custom 1.007 patch of RA2.
  6. Grant was strongly against it, yet MustacheX has been flaunting the fact that Grant basically told him that he can add his MX balance changes to a similar patch in the past. His edits include Soviets, Allied & Yuri, I also did have 'conservative' edits to faction specific units and minor edits to Allied & Soviet, all in line of Westwood's style, keeping the simplicity and fun based gameplay. Most players barely noticed the edits in testing because they were so subtle. This community is so backwards in those terms, that people are more willing to just disagree and plainly just say NO rather than discuss constructively, including the leadership. Also highly toxic individuals are left to roam the community while anyone taking action against them and when I take the initiative I'm punished like some kid. The staff below two of the deciding admins don't get much leeway in decision making, not a lot is explained in the way of reasoning either. I also see a lot of players getting preferential treatment in terms of their bail game stats having removed. When they are meant to lose points for abusing the system. I'll provide refinement updates to this, but I'm out as staff, not dealing with this bullshit.
  7. Yes, they can and it's not always a 100% win rate. You're speaking as if I made Yuri a lot weaker, which is not the case, I've played the new balanced changes against many top players as Yuri and won against both Allied & Soviet. Why is it that Allied vs Allied, Soviet vs Soviet, Soviet vs Allied games usually average around 4-8 minutes? Yet vs Yuri games average above 10 minutes almost always, I mostly see 12-16 minute games against Yuri, that's twice to 3x as long. This factor alone is a clear evidence of Yuri being overpowered. Also each of the players playing as Yuri usually never stand a chance playing as Soviet or Allied, why is that? Iraq is a simple macro side, Allied is a complex macro side, Yuri is a complex micro side. They don't all need to be the same. Playing as either of the mentioned factions changes the opposing faction's play style respectively. The new changes make Yuri less about 2 gats, 1 mag, 1 mm, spam CTRL+SHIFT to auto mag and halt entire armies of 20 units upward. You actually have to think weather you have the time to make a mag or a mm or should you make a chaos drone with a psi tower instead or rather lashers behind a gattling tower with a few brutes or yuri clones all the options are there. Sure, some of the changes need fine-tuning to make sure all the options are viable. Initiates have a stronger walking firepower than all of the other infantry, they don't need to deploy to make use of it either. Infact, initiate rushing is the most powerful infantry rush in the game. The garrison damage is the same as GI now, which is quite high, still. I tested this out, it's quite good until a desolator, seal or Tanya comes along. This keeps the brute useful in late game as well. Actually no, the deso walks, takes one shot, deso is half hp, virus is at the edge of the radiation, gets low health and goes back, deso auto heals and the sovs have their super easy deso comfort. Refineries sell for 300, because you pay for the miner too. Also slave miners move and you won't need to keep making them for new ore patches as you expand, you just move them, that's a very good deal! Both the Allied & Soviet miners have 1000 health and the same armour type, the Soviet War Miner has high storage capacity compared to the Chrono Miner. Before Yuri players would 'mindlessly' send their Slave miners across the map to gem patches, knowing that the opponents won't make so many tanks against Yuri. The slave miner is moving refinery and already has 250hp more than other miners. You'll find that making an early chaos drone or a few Brutes will easily counter that and that most Allied & Soviet players are faced with this same dilemma when making a miner from factory. You're going to need to practice your brutes and chaos drones, which you can make in advance before making miners actually, they are that good. Then you should not send or allow your miners to go too far, the Soviet and Allied need to manage their miners at all times for same reason, but Yuri shouldn't? You can use Initiates, gattling tanks, disks, gattling cannons (really good value now) to counter drones, from my testing it was obvious that drones are only slightly more effective against Yuri now. Lasher Tank Reduced Lasher Tank Build time by 20%. Actually the rate of fire is exactly the same except the grizzly bullet flies slower. Which is more likely to make it miss shots against fast moving units. You'll find that GI backing up grizzly tear through lashers quite easily. The damage against heavy armour is now more comparable to a sentry gun now. Yes it can be! BUT, the drones will infect the IFV and other units slowly, which makes repairing infected units slow, so if some one is attacking at the same time with tanks the drones will still be able to do their job. Yet as Yuri, 1 gattling tank can destroy 20 terror drones in a matter of 1-3 seconds. Making 2-3 gattling tanks will allow Yuri players to achieve the same effect however. The chaos drone is prone to stopping to shoot, which means units moving away from the drone are highly likely to kill it. The Yuri player will need to decide the right time to send in the chaos drone or risk losing it and the fight. You can shoot up those cliffs with Disks and MM instead. Increased Magnetron's anti structure weapon rate of fire by 10. Just to keep things consistent and help Yuri attack better. Previously Yuri would just make gattling tanks, disks or use his genetic mutator to kill your fodder. Now Yuri can do the same and use Viruses to counter fodder too. This fodder mechanic was only useful very rarely. Yet in vanilla game the Mirages completely destroy Masterminds. Now Mirages will need to attack MM directly or retreat, not camping. As this made it very difficult for Yuri to attack Allied based in the late game. Also Mirage can out run MM and harass Yuri from other spots, such as economy. Yet Soviets reign almost at all parts of the game thanks to desolators and the iron curtain. Being smarter than an equally skilled top player will be quite difficult to impossible. You'll find that lashers, gattling tanks and chaos drones are quite useful and that disks are still great for taking out enemy defences, structures and also using their special abilities such as draining power. So Yuri players would stop spamming Disk as a counter for absolutely everything in the late game. 1-4 lashers + mm to kill flak tracks, GGI ifvs just miss their shots when disks move, Yuri can just fly into your base, snipe key structures and move out while the countering units just miss their shots and even end up getting taken out... To keep the Disk effective at helping Yuri break through base defences, camping and units on the hill. Then tell every Yuri player to stop spamming them, when all they need is 1 disk to drain the power and the game is over (most of the time). Yet these Yuri players usually run the economy at an average of 10-12K... When desolators are not heavily harassing the enconomy, which mind takes a lot of macro to execute effectively.
  8. You will need to scout Yuri and make anti air in advance. Thanks, you guys should make an optional patch like I did.
  9. https://youtu.be/O-XvZqU9Do8?t=45 Did you realise that one Bio reactor was full of initiates? Chaos drone build speed test is not a great comparison, because you started at different times. The mastermind comparison is pointless, as the health increase is meant to work in conjunction with the overload damage. I would still recommend reading over the video.
  10. Great work, works well with Yuri's Revenge, very low latency and lets me use SweetFX post processing shaders.
  11. The medium armor change was to make the gattling tank more hardy so that it would survive scouting and still maintain usefulness on small maps as the damage nerf was aimed mainly at small maps where Yuri can endlessly mag your tanks over a gattling bunker.
  12. Technical information which is best not revealed to keep investigation methods useful. The evidence was inconclusive thus no action was taken.
  13. I like the queue system in RA2 & YR. It's simple, it's effective (especially in YR with shift cancel on a large queue, maybe add shift click to add 5 units to the build queue. ) also the quick structure placement hotkeys for the sidebar are a marvel of convenience. (Q,W for building placement) I really don't like the overly complicated solution from Kampfkekskrieger for unit and structure hotkeys in the sidebar I'd go with the SC2 approach of just assigning letters, depending on which tab is open reuse letters allowing them to be on the left side of the keyboard making hotkeys convenient and fast to use. No one is going to want to hold the mouse down while holding shift and looking for a letter in the middle of an intense game. One mistake and the player would want to trash the keyboard.
  14. What do you think of the latest : https://forums.cncnet.org/topic/9250-yuri-rebalance-patch-changelog/ These are not in the ladder btw.
  15. RaVaGe

    yuri rebalance

    @cypher Right here : https://forums.cncnet.org/topic/9250-yuri-rebalance-patch-changelog/
  16. Yuri Rebalance Patch (Community) Changelog The Yuri Rebalance Patch is a community effort to rebalance the Yuri side (faction) in C&C Yuri's Revenge so that it's not as overbearing and easy to abuse as in the vanilla game. How can I use it? You can toggle the patch on/off through a checkbox in the Skirmish & Custom game lobbies. This patch is a completely optional feature and is not implemented in the Ladder games. How was the Yuri side changed? Summary: This patch makes Yuri's entire army more micro intensive and forces the Yuri player to put more thought into each action. Changes in version: 1.31 Initiate Reduced Initiate Garrison damage from 63 to 25 (v1.00) Reduced Elite Initiate Garrison damage from 73 to 30 (v1.00) The overwhelming damage of the Initiate made it possible for Yuri to set up an invincible defence on small urban maps. Brute Reduced Brute's cost by $100 to keep it useful through out all stages of the game. (v1.31) Reduced Brute's sell value to $100 to fix the mutator grinding exploit. (v1.00) Virus Increased Virus' weapon range by 2 to make it a viable counter to the Desolator. (v1.00) Bioreactor Reduced base level Bio-Reactor power output by 100. (v1.00) Bioreactor is back at the default base value of 150 as the reduction made it too difficult for Yuri to use defensive structures in the early game.(v1.31) Reduced Bio-Reactor power upgrade output gained by inserted infantry from 100 to 50 to balance the cost to the output.(v1.31) This also affects the price of Yuri's superweapons and defensive structures as Yuri has to build more Bioreactors. Slave Miner Increased Slave Miner cost by $250. (v1.00) Returned Slave Miner cost to default as Yuri was falling too far behind in the early game.(v1.31) Reduced Slave Miner's health from 2000 to 1500, applies to both structure and vehicle modes, this stops Yuri players from expanding too far too fast. (v1.31) Salve miner now builds at the same rate from the structures and vehicles tab which helps reduce Yuri's weakness to rushes. (v1.00) Reduced Slave Miner's damage vs terror drones from 400% to 100%, this makes terror drones more viable against Yuri. (v1.00) Lasher Tank Reduced Lasher Tank Build time by 20% to allow Yuri to harass and fight at a lower tech level. (v1.00) Gattling Tank Increased Gattling Tank's movement speed by 2. (v1.00) Returned Gattling Tank's movement speed to default as this made Gattling Tanks too effective against air units. (v1.31) Change Gattling Tank's armour to medium to make it more durable against flak track spam. (v1.00) Returned armor to default as this made gattling tanks too effective against infantry units. (v1.31) Gattling Cannon Reduced the cost of Gattling Cannon by $500 to keep it useful with reductions done to gattling weapons. (v1.00) Set the cost of the Gattling Cannon to default as it was too easy to build a wall of Gattling cannons at the reduced cost. (v1.31) Gattling Weapons Reduced Gattling weapons damage to infantry armor types by 20% to improve the usefulness of infantry (including the rocketeer) against Yuri. (v1.00) Reduced Gattling weapons damage against terror drones by 75% to make the use of drones a viable option against Yuri. (v1.00) Reduced Gattling weapons damage against heavy armoured vehicles by 5% as Gattling Tank bunkers were too powerful on chokepoints and small maps. (v1.00) Set Gattling weapons damage against light armoured vehicles back to default as the 5% reduction made Mirage and Prism tanks too difficult to combat in the late game. (v1.31) Chaos Drone Increased Chaos Drone's movement speed by 2. This makes it easier to agressively use the Chaos drone. (v1.00) Reduced Chaos Drone's cost by $200, now $800. This makes the chaos drone more cost effective. (v1.31) Reduced Chaos Drone's build time by 10%.(v1.00) Set to default as it made it too easy to amass Chaos Drones. (v1.31) Reduced Chaos Drone's Berserk effect duration on infantry by 25%. (v1.00) Reduced Chaos Drone's Berserk effect duration on vehicles by 25%. (v1.00) The berserk duration was too long causing the chaos drone to act as a hard counter to most units, when it's intended to be used as a harassing or support unit. Magnetron Magnetron can no longer fire up cliffs. This stops players from picking up miners and units from on top of cliffs. (v1.00) Decreased Magnetron's anti vehicle weapon rate of fire by 90, this slows down auto-mag, previously spamming attack move would immobilize a large armoured army. (v1.00) Increased Magnetron's anti structure weapon rate of fire by 10. (v1.00) Set to default as this change was not needed. (v1.31) Mastermind Mastermind now overloads when controlling above 2 units instead of above 3. This stops masterminds from being completely overwhelming when amassed and forces the Yuri players to micro manage the mind controlled units. (v1.00) Reduced Mastermind's mind-control weapon rate of fire by 50. Set to default as it's better to control the mind control rate through overload damage per original game design. (v1.31) Increased Mastermind's mind-control weapon range by 1 to make Masterminds more effective against Mirage tanks, as they previously had no chance against them. (v1.00) Increased Mastermind's health by 100. Set to default as this was not needed due to returning rate of fire to default. (v1.31) Mastermind can detect disguises of spies and mirage tanks, this makes the Mastermind useful against Allied faction's late game tech. (v1.00) Mastermind's overload damage amount increases faster, before it would wait until 6,10,50 units are mind-controlled by the Mastermind to increase overload damage, now each additional unit increases the damage received. (v1.00) Mastermind's overload damage reduced to match increased rate levels previously 0,50,100,500 per each level now 0,50,50,50 due to increasing the rate not the damage, this makes it harder to kill or grind mind controlled units as more are controlled. (v1.00) Mastermind's overload damage rate set to increase at an incremental rate ((0,70,40,20) lower is faster) on the amount of units controlled, this allows the Yuri player to micro to avoid damage as intended by original game design. (v1.00) Floating Disk Reduced Floating Disk's health by 100. (v1.00) Reduced FLoating Disk's damage to vehicles by 20%. Set to default to keep the disk effective against Allied units in the late game. (v1.31) Increased Floating DIsk's weapon range by 1. Set to default as the longer range was too effective against Soviets and Allied anti air units. (v1.31) Increased Floating Disk's cost by $250 to $2000. (v1.00) Boomer Submarine Reduced Boomer Submarine land based missile count from 2 to 1. Set to default as the boomer now requires a Battle lab to be built. (v1.31) Reduced Boomer Submarine Missile health by 15. Set to default as it made the boomer too ineffective in the late game. (v1.31) Yuri Boomer Submarine now requires a Yuri Battle Lab to be built as it was too easy to rush and overwhelm the opponent. (v1.31) Reduced Boomer Submarine cost by $250 due to being available later in the game. (v1.31) Psychic Tower Increased Psychic Tower's power requirement from 100 to 150, this makes spamming Psychic towers more costly. Tank Bunker Reduced Tank Bunker's health from 1000 to 600. V3 Missiles now deal damage to the units inside tank bunkers as well as the bunker. Dreadnought Missiles now deal damage to the units inside tank bunkers as well as the bunker. Boomer Submarine Missiles now deal damage to the units inside tank bunkers as well as the bunker. Kirov Bombs now deal damage to the units inside tank bunkers as well as the bunker. All of the missile and bomb changes stop the tank inside the bunker from escaping after a good hit. Genetic Mutator Super-weapon Reduced charge time of Genetic Muatator superweapon by 1 minute as it's the weakest of the 3 first level superweapons. Now it behaves like and recharged at the same rate as the American Paradrop special. Other bugs/exploits Reduced Terror Drone sell value to 1 as they stack with the value of a unit they infest when grinded. This caused iron curtained drones to boost Yuri's economy if a droned Yuri's army was sent into the grinder. I don't like it! What should I do? The changes in this patch are dependant on people trying them out (testing) and reporting their experiences in this thread.
  17. Modern RTS controls such found in C&C Red Alert 2 & Yuri's Revenge. I mean waypoints, rally points, control groups with double tap to centre screen on group, keyboard shortcuts for deploying, attack moving, etc.
  18. @dkeeton Is the ladder open source?
  19. Correction: Since laming is the most efficient way to win in some cases, you should always expect it, because ladder games are about winning the most efficiently.
  20. While Grant has highly opposed any balancing outside of the Yuri Faction due to the community currently lacking a consensus on such things, if a LOT of the community can get onboard which such things I'm certain even he will change his mind. While I think that will be highly unlikely. While developing the balance changes I was aiming to hit the unused factions and the major Allied & Soviet issues as well, but it became evident that most of the community is not interested in those. While there seems to be a huge consensus among all skill levels of players that the Yuri faction is overpowered! You do realise that these stats are affected by the amount of players per faction respectively?
  21. I'm working towards balancing Yuri for QM. I will need more votes from players like you to get it implemented in QM! People lose points when they bail a map. This is also the reason nicknames are hidden, yes we know it affects everything else too such as laming for example, but this is the best option for bailing! @Ferret Can you remove this? He's usually quite alright.
  22. Oils were removed to stop the eat fest that happened on the original, you just added them back.
  23. They have all mentioned the difficulty of beating Yuri at one point or another. Yeah they are good at beating Yuri, but they are the best at the game as well, it shouldn't require the "best players" just to beat some one who plays Yuri, anyone should be able to do it, especially in a competitive scene. Most of the YR community doesn't visit these forums, these discussions have been had on the relevant Discord channels and opinions have been gathered. Also it is very evident from the community that there is a consensus regarding Yuri. There are many mod maps out there made by casual to advanced competitive players that attempt to rebalance Yuri. I'm working towards solving this problem.
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