Yuri's Revenge Rebalanced 2.0

[CCCP84]

In general, maybe we should create and pin a topic where we will discuss various bugs and make joint decisions on fixing them? There are many bugs and some of them can be easily fixed.
Guys from the team, what do you think about this?

I could provide a whole list at once.

[CCCP84]

I checked flack troopers. Yes, the problem was confirmed. Guys, we need to fix this.
I'll fix it for my maps anyway. But that must be fixed for the whole game.

It have to be:

[FlakGuyAAGunE]
Damage=20

Edited May 11, 2021 by CCCP84

[CCCP84]

On 5/10/2021 at 5:02 PM, bbglas007 said:

And it's ok to you that allieds have significantly worse anti air? I'm not saying allieds have mildy worse anti air, i could speculate that allieds only retain 20% effectiveness of soviet or Yuri anti air capability

If you want insight, here it is: Anti air naval

This is how it should work. The Soviets do not have gap generators, the Soviet side as a whole is heavier and more clumsy and inert.
But it has good air defense. In general, the balance is in place. Each side has its pros and cons. Air defense is the strong point of the Soviet.
However, the air defense of the alliance is more effective against the Kirovs (land and naval). And besides, do not forget that rocketeers are also air defense, and especially if they are promoted by spies.
I am sure there is a complete balance here.

By the way, about the ships. Let them try to do the same as they did in video, but so that the aeges float away from the rocketeers. The result will surprise you (here again, the skill of the player is important). And flak boats cannot shoot in motion.
It is also quite balanced.

[Cicasajt]

i would increase allied power plant price back to 700

prisms are precision artillery, they shouldnt be able to shoot while moving

robot tanks should be able to shoot while moving since they dont really have a directional body, they also shouldnt require power to work. it makes them useless when supers are on since u use force shield.

tesla tank range 6 is too long, 5 is better. aoe should be shorter for non-elites.

terror drone grind fix is useless since yuri can only grind for half now. i dont think leaving this out is gamebreaking.

i feel like a good balance to deso would be to not insta-melt every infantry.

psychic dominator delay is a bit too long now. maybe 70?

chaos drone cost could be even less. like 600 or 700.

some additional ideas that i dont know if possible to do:

magnetrons cant lift miners, lifted units dont lose selection if selected.

flak troopers shouldnt require a radar to build

more armor and damage for nighthawks

v3 has more health and speed

[CCCP84]

On 5/10/2021 at 5:02 PM, bbglas007 said:

Westwood really failed when thinking of planes - how often are they built in competitive matches?  PAF is the only player who really knows how to use planes well to begin with, but the skill level to use them effectively at their bloated price of $1200 per plane, their weak HP, insane vulnerability to flak and unbeknownst to many their cost to repair (yes they do cost money to repair when they land) is hard to match.

They only have 1 shot, and the 1 shot doesn't even do much damage, i think it's fair that the missiles are more accurate. I don't think they should have 100% success rate, but as it is against pro players, it is feasible to speculate they only have 45% accuracy

I have not play tested this mod yet, but if the planes had 80% accuracy, that would be great. It's too easy to make a plane misfire as it is. It's also not like they serve anything representable like real life harriers either, they do not serve any anti air functions, not can they 1 hit tanks like i'm sure a real aircraft could (look up the A-10 Warthog)

Yes, indeed, planes are rarely used. Black eagles look good though.
It might be worth adding armor to them, or lowering the cost.
I'm just worried about the question that sometimes noobs will raid 8-12 black eagles to kill your base at the beginning of the game. I often use the inaccuracy of their strike to save the base. If they become accurate, it will become a problem.

[bbglas007]

1 hour ago, CCCP84 said:

Yes, indeed, planes are rarely used. Black eagles look good though.
It might be worth adding armor to them, or lowering the cost.
I'm just worried about the question that sometimes noobs will raid 8-12 black eagles to kill your base at the beginning of the game. I often use the inaccuracy of their strike to save the base. If they become accurate, it will become a problem.

And those players will no longer become noobs...

 

Maybe hahahahaha

[xe3]

Only was a matter of time.... Also shows just why Spies are broken beyond all fuck. Easy 12k with no effort whatsoever.

[ReaperAA]

On 5/10/2021 at 7:02 PM, bbglas007 said:

And it's ok to you that allieds have significantly worse anti air? I'm not saying allieds have mildy worse anti air, i could speculate that allieds only retain 20% effectiveness of soviet or Yuri anti air capability

If you want insight, here it is: Anti air naval

You need to remember that ra2 does not support true multi targeting
An aegis may fire 10 rockets at 1 rocketeer, however it will wait until that rocketeer dies or moves out of range until firing at the next rocketeer. It will also overfire at it's target. It may only require 2-3 rockets to kill a rocketeer, but it will still shoot 10+ perhaps. I don't need to explain to you how flak works. It's ridiculous to compare

 Also I didn't see you comment on terrorists or demolition trucks, so i suppose you are happy with them as they are not used as much in competitive games

 

I think the AA deficiency of all Allied AA units/structures can be fixed by making their missiles travel faster and have a small splash radius increase. This change would not have much impact at all in Allied vs Soviet or Allied vs Yuri, but would make a huge difference in Allied vs Allied and put a stop to the rocketeer spamfest.

[CCCP84]

47 minutes ago, ReaperAA said:

 

I think the AA deficiency of all Allied AA units/structures can be fixed by making their missiles travel faster and have a small splash radius increase. This change would not have much impact at all in Allied vs Soviet or Allied vs Yuri, but would make a huge difference in Allied vs Allied and put a stop to the rocketeer spamfest.

Do you know what is the best weapon against rocketeers? Rocketeers! ))

[ReaperAA]

28 minutes ago, CCCP84 said:

Do you know what is the best weapon against rocketeers? Rocketeers! ))

Exactly the issue with Allied vs Allied.

[bbglas007]

7 hours ago, xe3 said:

Only was a matter of time.... Also shows just why Spies are broken beyond all fuck. Easy 12k with no effort whatsoever.

Not really, that player was afk and not producing any units. In a pro game this would not work as good players are always spending their money as fast as they can

[xe3]

On 5/12/2021 at 10:28 PM, bbglas007 said:

Not really, that player was afk and not producing any units. In a pro game this would not work as good players are always spending their money as fast as they can

The "pr0 pliar" argument again....

Name me one unit that doesn't belong to Allied that can give you the same benefits while demanding balls all. If he was Soviet or Yuri, he wouldn't have free 12k in the same exact situation.

This unit demands exactly 0 effort, costs nothing and can either give you free Veterans, free money, the most broken units if you spy a lab, or just sap power for 30 seconds. Step 1: Build IFV. Step 2: abuse waypoint. Step 3: Send to a building of your choice, 99% success rate. Step 4(optional): shoot dogs/drones from IFV, because for some genius reason, Spy inside IFV can still use the MG.

It's too good, most nations bar Iraq have balls all as a response to this, and even then they have to be careful deploying the base Desos as it'll damage his units that are leaving the factories. Ironically Allied are the worst when it comes to countering Spies. The lame Spies are especially powerful on games that are not "pr0 pliar dune walk", 3x3 or 4x4 games are basically Spy games.

Why have a toggle for Multi-Engineer, who are no where as dangerous as Spies? That's why I suggested making a toggle for No Spies as well. If you're a "pro pliar", more power to you, play with Spies. CNCNet is all about options, right?

If you meant the newly buffed Prisms then just LOL. Just about everyone agrees that the buff was unnecessary.

Edited May 14, 2021 by xe3

[ReaperAA]

43 minutes ago, xe3 said:

Why have a toggle for Multi-Engineer, who are no where as dangerous as Spies? That's why I suggested making a toggle for No Spies as well. If you're a "pro pliar", more power to you, play with Spies. CNCNet is all about options, right?

I am not against this (as long as it is a separate option and not part of YRR 2.0). Spies are not a problem in pro vs pro games, but they are broken in casual games.

 

They are especially an issue in Allied vs Allied. Veteran rocketeers are just "wonderful" when Allied AA is already not very good against light units.

Or God help if the enemy infiltrated your battle lab and has access to chrono commandos.

[cypher]

changes sound good.

I made a rebalance in my maps too.

There are two changes which I think should be applied here :

1.  Patriot missle has weakened agais shots, which make them good against mass-rocketeer (must have IMHO)
2.  Grand Cannon build limit 2
3. ( if possible, let Crazy-Ivan swim)

 

 

I also have some alternative unique units which are pretty good IMHO, but I think not for everyone :

• Russia has russian paradrop instead of tesla-tank
• Libya has Slave Miner
• Cuba has Vehicle-Hijacker
• Germany has Chronotank (build limit 5)

 

 

Edited May 16, 2021 by cypher

[xe3]

Right, so Tesla tanks not only detect Mirages... but also Spies. Effortlessly kill an effortless unit. Brilliant.

[cypher]

I think they'll probably also detect underwater units...

[CCCP84]

On 5/17/2021 at 10:58 PM, xe3 said:

Right, so Tesla tanks not only detect Mirages... but also Spies.

 

14 hours ago, cypher said:

I think they'll probably also detect underwater units...

it doesn't detect anything at all. I checked

[CCCP84]

On 5/18/2021 at 9:41 PM, cypher said:

 

what make you laugh, dude?

[Nerto]

I think this patch is mostly good for allies.

If slow speed and acceleration and build speed are supposed to be apoc weaknesess, I´m ok with that, but it should be actually strong enough in other areas to justify all of them. Right now it´s not, and firing on the move doesn´t look very useful vs mirages, bfs will still beat them, prism maybe didn´t beat them before and now they do. They need a real buff somewhere, I would also prefer to keep them slow and even not give them fire on the move to go with the spirit of what they are meant to be, but maybe give them more  range, better AA, or whatever stat to make it an slow but powerful stuff, right now it´s slow and crappy.

[cypher]

well at first I thought this ability is a bit OP or breaks some core-concepts about spys & submarine units, but now it turns out it's a papertiger

[CCCP84]

I got it. but, i'm disappointed that it doesn't work. I was hoping to fix the psi sensor

[cypher]

Ok i will break down my change-wishes to one :

Please think about giving Patriot missle weakened agais shots, to make them good against mass-rocketeer  @burg93 @Ezer_2000

[burg93]

3 hours ago, cypher said:

Ok i will break down my change-wishes to one :

Please think about giving Patriot missle weakened agais shots, to make them good against mass-rocketeer  @burg93 @Ezer_2000

Patriot missile accuracy has been increased in YRR 2.0, this is a helpful buff.

@xe3 mentioned having a "no spy" option I think this would be good to have as an option.

I like the suggestions from @Cicasajt , I like the suggestion of robot tanks not requiring power as you are right if Allies use force shield or if 1 yuri disk drains a power plant, all their robot tanks go offline. They are almost unusable unit at that point.

Prism tanks having shoot-move isn't necessary either I agree with majority it is not needed.  We definitely want to focus the patch on Quality of Life improvements so I would definitely want to remove unnecessary changes.

 

[NizzyStorm]

I will be honest. with spy's OUT of the equation. I've not seen a single point where auto=shooting prism's are OP. I would very much like to see recorded proof of this TBH. I think allies are at a very nice point right now. At least for FFG's. For competitive play maybe not but that would require this to have a month in Quick match to see how it performs at a high level standard. That would be the only way to prove they are OP. Long story short, I DO NOT want auto shooting prism's to be removed. They are only EVER used for Chronospheres a lot of the time. I killed SEVEN of Kireeek's auto shooting prisms with ONE auto shooting Apoc and killed Kireeek because that was all he spammed. So if I can beat SEVEN of a so called OP unit with one unit that's referred to as "still crappy" then wouldn't that make Apocs and prisms fine where they stand? I really don't know why you guys are complaining without evidence of this. And I can gather evidence that they are not if you guys so want. 

Edited May 21, 2021 by NizzyStorm

[CCCP84]

we love to play with spies. it's part of the game. we also place guard dogs. espionage turns into an exciting special operation. it's fun.