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Would you like to see CNCnet Support Ares?


bbglas007
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Would you like to see CNCnet Support Ares?  

14 members have voted

  1. 1. Would you like to see CNCnet natively Support Ares & mod assets and include it in future updates?

    • Ares + Phobos+ art.ini + mod database support
      12
    • No
      2


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This is only some... of what's possible...
For creatives to express their work and to be able to provide better, much higher quality of content only when alternatives are craved

(Ares is a community extension for Red Alert 2. Phobos is an extension for Ares.
Art.ini is the file that dictates things like animations, unit sequences and infantry deployment + much more which map makers are not able to edit
Some of the content here is from a project called Dynamic Patcher which is in early development. Implementation at this stage is unclear however many have high hopes for it's success)

 
 
 
 
 
 

Dynamic Patcher project - Credit: ChrisLv
(May or may not be possible with Ares+ Phobos)

 

Credit: MentalΩSpeeder 
https://www.youtube.com/c/MentalOmegaAPYR/videos

technoshield-01.gif
Phobos Project
Buildings, Infantries and Vehicles with Shield in Fantasy ADVENTURE


mindcontrol-max-range-01.gif
Phobos Project
Mind Control Range Limit used in Fantasy ADVENTURE


projectile-interception-01.gif
Phobos Project
Interception logic used in Tiberium Crisis mod


https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1q64y1476Z?share_source=copy_web
Credit: ChrisLv
Dynamic Patcher (May or may not be possible with Ares+ Phobos)



The addition of Ares will not infringe upon the original game, but only enhance it for those who wish to try something new. To play a mod with a friends is a complicated task which requires downloading different clients, a patcher and the mod itself.

What is being proposed here is a seamless integration allowing near instant playability of the desired mod without rebooting and launching when you and your friends are in the same room and ready to go.

It should be noted that survival maps and other modded maps can only be largely enhanced and the potential to make very intricate complex combat simulations and unit engagements is near limitless presenting you with a mod for exactly what you're after.

Many other gaming platforms already have these functions that are much more user friendly and seamless, however Ra2 seems to be stuck in the 90's

THE ADDITION OF A MODS DATABASE + ASSET DATABASE

As state above, the addition of a mod database would allow you to play any mod at any given time regardless of the map
The Addition of an asset database however would allow modders to make simple map mods and reference the asset database to allow unique units to appear
Artists could also submit their Voxel and SHP's to the database for community use and for broader audience recognition 

ARES + PHOBOS COULD ALSO BE USED TO FIX SOME OF THE ORIGINAL RA2 BUGS
As Ra2 mode is an emulation using the Yuri's Revenge Engine, the functionality of Ares can be used to fix some of the annoyances ra2 pros encounter such as mirage tanks/ spies/ subs not being detected by the psychic sensor or preventing units from getting promotions whilst being garrisoned inside buildings (true to the original ra2)

This can help us reach that original, true RA2 feel

For more information check out these links:

https://ares-developers.github.io/Ares-docs/index.html
https://phobos.readthedocs.io/en/latest/
https://github.com/Xkein/YRDynamicPatcher#yrdynamicpatcher

Edited by bbglas007
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Posted (edited)
37 minutes ago, Kikematamitos said:

This means that mods like that can be compresed on maps or is jus put more mods to the download cncnet client? 

Both,
It also means you can select a map AND select a mod,  if you wish

That's the theory 
image.png.8cf6391af654fcfedaf72b0df745fcde.png

Edited by bbglas007
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in order to make ra2 standalone you would need to change every single graphical asset in the game for a brand new one thanks to EA's copywright nonsense. the actual problem with the main cncnet client and hosting mods has to do with the fact that mods often use assets ripped from other games, and if cncnet got caught uploading and distributing, for example, some assets ripped from ra3 or starcraft, then it would be goodbye cncnet and hello copyright lawsuits. so that just leaves the option of modding maps, which brings on the pitfalls of mapside art.ini editing (which is possible only with the chinese client by the way), and file size caps. a single shield animation like you see above, or 1 or 2 tanks or infantry would be the most you could pack into a map before hitting 1mb. assuming they found a way to pack files into maps.

now im not a dev but thats just my take on the matter. with that said, actually managing to fuse the fun of more sophisticated mods with the convenience and accessibility of the main cncnet client would unprecedented and absolutely groundbreaking for the modding community and the multiplay community alike.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, McPwny said:

in order to make ra2 standalone you would need to change every single graphical asset in the game for a brand new one thanks to EA's copywright nonsense. the actual problem with the main cncnet client and hosting mods has to do with the fact that mods often use assets ripped from other games, and if cncnet got caught uploading and distributing, for example, some assets ripped from ra3 or starcraft, then it would be goodbye cncnet and hello copyright lawsuits. so that just leaves the option of modding maps, which brings on the pitfalls of mapside art.ini editing (which is possible only with the chinese client by the way), and file size caps. a single shield animation like you see above, or 1 or 2 tanks or infantry would be the most you could pack into a map before hitting 1mb. assuming they found a way to pack files into maps.

now im not a dev but thats just my take on the matter. with that said, actually managing to fuse the fun of more sophisticated mods with the convenience and accessibility of the main cncnet client would unprecedented and absolutely groundbreaking for the modding community and the multiplay community alike.

There may have to be a sort of "vetting process" or "approved mods" system
Also some kind of arrangement between cncnet and Moddb may have to be formed and Moddb should be a good reference to see how they deal with this sort of copyright issue

At the very least, art.ini integration would be appreciated however 

Difficult, yes. Impossible... never 

Edited by bbglas007
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My idea was to either have Ares run as a base game or have monthly addon assets from CnCNet in the form of updates, just a couple of usable Cameos, Sounds, Art, Voxels (plus a usable tag in the map files that lets us use any cameo on any unit ID without cloning). And yes of course checked and free from copyright. Just to freshen up existing mod maps, and future pool of map creations.

Or have both ares and monthly or quarterly assets pushed out in the form of clients updates.

The idea of a separate mods tab to apply to existing maps can have the mod code + a section inside said mod code that has a list of approved maps that will auto filter accordingly.

Another idea is have the CnCNet map DB accessable via ingame client to download maps with out having to download it from someone or manually installing and restarting.

It would also have been nice if we can hide our work in progrsss code from being displayed in the DB before its ready.

Just some dreams of mine : |

 

 

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i agree.

kommando brings up a good point. in cncnet tiberian sun, they already have an asset pack with units, buildings, terrain, etc included client-side. since everything is an addition and needs to be enabled by mappers, it doesnt interfere with vanilla gameplay. they could do this for ra2 aswell, and they could even include ares-specific anims if they ever chose to enable it. personally as an shp artist, i have a whole factions worth of structures that i would happily contribute to the client for mappers to use. what kommando said about cameos makes a lot of sense aswell; that problem alone is a huge bottleneck for map modders.

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On 7/29/2021 at 5:01 PM, McPwny said:

in order to make ra2 standalone you would need to change every single graphical asset in the game for a brand new one thanks to EA's copywright nonsense. the actual problem with the main cncnet client and hosting mods has to do with the fact that mods often use assets ripped from other games, and if cncnet got caught uploading and distributing, for example, some assets ripped from ra3 or starcraft, then it would be goodbye cncnet and hello copyright lawsuits. so that just leaves the option of modding maps, which brings on the pitfalls of mapside art.ini editing (which is possible only with the chinese client by the way), and file size caps. a single shield animation like you see above, or 1 or 2 tanks or infantry would be the most you could pack into a map before hitting 1mb. assuming they found a way to pack files into maps.

now im not a dev but thats just my take on the matter. with that said, actually managing to fuse the fun of more sophisticated mods with the convenience and accessibility of the main cncnet client would unprecedented and absolutely groundbreaking for the modding community and the multiplay community alike.

Hasn't someone already done something like this with the SRJ maps? or whatever they're called?

Also how would Ares and Phobos compare with something like Mental Omega, which already has CncNet client support doesn't it?

Edited by aWarNoob_sed0na
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im not sure what the SRJ maps are. i can say that virtually all mods using ares and phobos, whether they have multiplay support or not, use the cncnet client. simply because they are compatible and because the cncnet launcher is... well... better in every way than using the vanilla menus. mental omega also uses the cncnet client, im sure. so in a way, all cncnet would have to do is include the ares files, a dll file and a syringe file basically, in an update, and then enable them. but at the same time, simply including ares files and enabling them would do almost nothing until someone also put in graphics and also code.

and to give a devils advocate argument for a moment, if one wants to play red alert 2 online with ares and phobos and new graphics and code and units and logics, then probably it would be simpler just to download a mod and do exactly that.

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59 minutes ago, McPwny said:

im not sure what the SRJ maps are. i can say that virtually all mods using ares and phobos, whether they have multiplay support or not, use the cncnet client. simply because they are compatible and because the cncnet launcher is... well... better in every way than using the vanilla menus. mental omega also uses the cncnet client, im sure. so in a way, all cncnet would have to do is include the ares files, a dll file and a syringe file basically, in an update, and then enable them. but at the same time, simply including ares files and enabling them would do almost nothing until someone also put in graphics and also code.

and to give a devils advocate argument for a moment, if one wants to play red alert 2 online with ares and phobos and new graphics and code and units and logics, then probably it would be simpler just to download a mod and do exactly that.

I think he means SFJ, a drop in map mod code that works with vanilla ra2.

Having Ares run as default without new assets, is still beneficial as we can do more with what already exists, add new mechanics, new weapons, etc. It would be a whole new age of fun mod maps for CNCNet.

Plus we can use it to fix existing vanilla bugs.

Personally I have been working on a drop in map code of my own, that tries to make use of all the left over / unused assets in the game to create a fresh new faction, that looks different, and has new and unique looking weapons.

Working on this mod had me working around a ton of game limitations, dont get me wrong its fun working within the limitations but it would have been really nice to have Ares code at my finger tips to make some of my unit ideas a reality.

As for all the existing amazing Ares mods that had a ton of work put into them, its unfortuantly too much for unexperienced players to set those up to try them out.

Edited by Nuclear Kommando
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yeah it really is a shame that ea insists of making life hard for everyone with their copyright games. tiberian sun doesnt have the same restrictions and so its possible to download and install a standalone TS mod for free in minutes, but ra2...

anyways, i dont disagree with you guys on this. enabling ares for cncnet would be an epic win for map modders. perhaps burg could give some input on the matter about whether or not it would be practical to perhaps make an ares mode toggle box in the mp lobbies or something like that.

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