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fir3w0rx Newbie

fir3w0rx

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  On 9/24/2017 at 3:47 AM, MapDesigner said:

Yes :O

 

but let me guess first: that they can strike while moving? XD

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Close but way off.

 

posted image

(The same goes for the sentry gun)

 

posted image

Same principle as with the tier one turrets.

In short, in a tank battle where you are Sovs and your enemy is Allieds, try to position your tanks directly above, below, left or right of the grizzlies, NOT at an angle. Obviously you won't be able to do this all the time, but if you do this with every chance you get, you'll start winning more tank battles.

Tell no one of what has transpired here today. Now go be a pro!

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fir3w0rx
fir3w0rx

Close but way off.   (The same goes for the sentry gun)   Same principle as with the tier one turrets. In short, in a tank battle where you are Sovs and your enemy i

Chrono Vortex
Chrono Vortex

Well, the game treats cells like actual squares, meaning that it takes approximately 41% longer to traverse them across their diagonal than it does to traverse them across their width or length. That

Chrono Vortex
Chrono Vortex

So, looking into the rules, the rhino has 5.75 range while the grizzly tank only has 5. I always thought that extra 0.75 was useless... Interestingly, the sentry and the pillbox each have 5.5 ran

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Chrono Vortex Newbie

Chrono Vortex

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 9/24/2017 at 4:16 AM, fir3w0rx said:

posted image

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So, looking into the rules, the rhino has 5.75 range while the grizzly tank only has 5. I always thought that extra 0.75 was useless...

Interestingly, the sentry and the pillbox each have 5.5 range, so there may be some positioning in which they would be able to target a grizzly, but the grizzly wouldn't be able to target them.

EDIT: Indeed there is:

Untitled.png.0f2d1deaeb6f5522751b20e70f2343cb.png

 

If a grizzly is in a white cell, it can target the pillbox and the pillbox can target it.

If a grizzly is in a blue cell, neither it nor the pillbox can target each other.

If a grizzly is in a red cell, the pillbox can target it, but it can't target the pillbox.

Same goes for sentry guns.

Edited by Chrono Vortex
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Chrono Vortex Newbie

Chrono Vortex

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Posted (edited)
  On 9/25/2017 at 2:13 AM, scalpem said:

Do units move the same speed going up/down as left/right ?

like do they cover the same amount of squares per minute, or is it based on visual distance?

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Well, the game treats cells like actual squares, meaning that it takes approximately 41% longer to traverse them across their diagonal than it does to traverse them across their width or length. That means that an object moving horizontally or vertically will travel 5 cells in about the the same time that an object moving diagonally will travel 7 cells.

Another interesting effect of cells being longer going horizontally or vertically is that base-crawling horizontally or vertically is more efficient, since the location at which you can place buildings is cell-based and not distance-based. Physically, you can place buildings about 41% farther away from other buildings going horizontally or vertically rather than diagonally.

...I should probably make some diagrams for this, huh?

EDIT: Alright, I hope you guys know your trigonometry ‘cause this shiz is about to get mathematical.

Cell.png.d32fa14167bec7cb7797688d47220ae4.png

If we say an in-game cell is x units by x units large, then its diagonals, which are going horizontally and vertically since the cell is a square rotated 45 degrees, are each x × root( 2 ) units in length (note that the square root of 2 is about 1.41).

Untitled2.png.53ef81c28a3b5b2c1c725d70e46e7835.png

Because of this, placing a new power plant in the red square would place it 2x units away from the original power plant, while placing the new power plant in either of the green squares would place it 2 × ( x × root( 2 ) ) units away from the original power plant.

Edited by Chrono Vortex
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fir3w0rx Newbie

fir3w0rx

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Posted
  On 9/25/2017 at 12:03 PM, FReQuEnZy said:

Lol, impressive diagrams. 

Did you guys use Final Alert 2 to make them?

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I don't know where Pythagoras Vortex^ got his images from, but I got all mine from good 'ol google, including my isometric grid. It looks like he did it properly though and used actual images from the mix files, where as mine were all cut and paste, some not even cut properly :P. I was going to use FA2's framework mode, but I couldn't get the tanks to face a specific direction, plus they didn't look like how they normally do in-game.

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fir3w0rx Newbie

fir3w0rx

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Posted (edited)
  On 9/25/2017 at 2:34 PM, FReQuEnZy said:

Yeah, they are rendered differently in Final Alert 2.

You can double click the units and set the facing direction and also pick faction for colour, Allied are Orange and Soviet are Red.

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I actually did that (double click) but I didn't notice the 'Direction' option. I think because right after I had a look at colors for the different 'Owners', I said fuck this, and closed it :D

Edited by fir3w0rx
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Gun_Man Newbie

Gun_Man

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Posted

That range thing is useful.  I learned it from Zhasulan - i guess people on cncnet know him as other names like DTA.  I'm pretty sure there's more than one tile where the rhino can outrange the sentry.

But kids, this is why u dont chase full health rhinos with grizzlies!

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MapDesigner Newbie

MapDesigner

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  On 9/14/2017 at 8:06 PM, FlyingMustache said:

I think the build timer is the primary reason for that. The transition to YR nerfed the rhino timer by 30%, but the grizz timer was nerfed 50%. The grizz builds proportionately slower than the rhino by a 20% margin. Which is a difference everyone noticed. 

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  On 9/14/2017 at 8:13 PM, XXxPrePxX said:

Wow, I didn't know about the stats there, so it really is that bad. Yeah, then the argument that allieds are much weaker on YR compared to Ra2 holds with even stronger conviction.

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Thx guys for pointing this out. I was surprised this info was not stated in the wiki page for grizzly tank  (shows original  not updated value) but rather only for rhino tank (shows both).

 

I have tested this with my stopwatch at Fast game speed (4), and found that Rhino Tank  took 22.5 Seconds to be manufactured, whereas it took grizzlies 20.7 seconds.  under the assumption that rhino build time is really 46 seconds, this leads to conclusion, from proportionality, that grizzly tank needs 42 seconds to manufactor.

 

Although I forgot to stop the watch for half a second, it wouldnt matter cuz I took measurement for manufacturing 10 tanks 

 

  On 9/27/2017 at 1:20 AM, fir3w0rx said:

(post deleted)

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Ezer_2000 Explorer

Ezer_2000

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Posted (edited)

@MapDesigner i don't know which topic are these quotes from. But actually, for both (Rhino ang Grizzly) tanks BuildTimeMultiplier=1.5

Info from rulesmd.ini (YR 1.001)

https://forums.cncnet.org/topic/7500-red-alert-2-laboratory/?do=findComment&comment=57622

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You must have read the rules wrong. Rhino is 1.3 and grizz is 1.5

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Edited by Ezer_2000
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MapDesigner Newbie

MapDesigner

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  On 9/28/2017 at 5:17 PM, FlyingMustache said:

It's just strange because the rhino builds in about 11 seconds at normal game speed. If it's 1.5, it should build at about 13 seconds. Closer to the miner. I'm going to check the maps themselves to see if they have individual values. Remember xwis toe prism towers? 

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No

 

Whats that?

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MapDesigner Newbie

MapDesigner

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  On 9/28/2017 at 5:17 PM, FlyingMustache said:

It's just strange because the rhino builds in about 11 seconds at normal game speed. If it's 1.5, it should build at about 13 seconds. Closer to the miner. I'm going to check the maps themselves to see if they have individual values. Remember xwis toe prism towers? 

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Hmmm,

 

So you think rhino build time multipier was reduced in each and every map of YR?

 

I have made all my tests in East vs Best map. (And from the same save game i have)

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FlyingMustache Newbie

FlyingMustache

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Posted
  On 9/30/2017 at 1:40 AM, MapDesigner said:

Hmmm,

 

So you think rhino build time multipier was reduced in each and every map of YR?

 

I have made all my tests in East vs Best map. (And from the same save game i have)

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I didn't see a multiplier when I opened an official map in notepad, but I tested the speed between an official map and a map where I manually put in the 1.5 multiplier. The official map built the rhino in 11 seconds, the 1.5 map built the rhino at 13 seconds like I predicted. Test it yourself if you can. for some reason, it seems westwood changed the rhino to 1.3 build speed in the end.

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