Changes to the game that everyone will agree with.

[CCCP84]

I propose in this thread to discuss changes to the game, with which everyone will agree. For example, fixing bugs. Or any other solutions that will not cause controversy.
I suggest guys from the team to make these changes if no objection is raised. To make changes with unanimous approval.

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For example, I have some kind of wish. In RA2 mode, some civil buildings from YR are missing. It would be nice if you add them for RA2 too. 
On some maps, in RA2 mode, for example, bunkers located with the back to the observer simply disappear.

Also you could use additional buildings to create maps. For example, I wanted to use a spotlight and a water tower for decorative purposes on checkpoints, on the the Black Sea map. However, they were absent in RA2 mode. And I had to give up this idea. It's the same with bunkers. I could only use 2 instead of 4. 

Adding buildings to RA2 has no drawbacks, only advantages. I am sure there will be no objection. This change is only positive.

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Another no-objection solution might be fixing a bug with the elite flak trooper, that becoming weaker than the regular flak trooper.

It have to be:

[FlakGuyAAGunE]

Damage=20

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There is also a problem with Yuri Prime in RA2 mode, which can control 10 units at a time, while in the original RA2 he can control only 1.
Definitely 10 controlled units is wrong, it makes the game run out of chance for the opposing side. The value in the original RA2 is correct.
Should be:

[SuperMindControl]
Damage = 1

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There is also a problem with selling alliance units in cloning vats in RA2 mode. It is profitable. This shouldn't happen. The "Soylent =" parameters were corrected in rulesmd.ini, however, not corrected in rules.ini for RA2 mode.
Here it is necessary to bring the "Soylent =" parameters in accordance with the rulesmd.ini (YR).

[CLEG]
Soylent=750

[E1]
Soylent=100

[PTROOP]
Soylent=500

[SNIPE]
Soylent=300

[SPY]
Soylent=500

[TANY]
Soylent=500

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Edited May 23, 2021 by CCCP84

[Ezer_2000]

1 hour ago, CCCP84 said:

The value in the original RA2 is correct.

[SPY]
Soylent=1000

[TANY]
Soylent=1000

 

1 hour ago, CCCP84 said:

Adding buildings to RA2 has no drawbacks, only advantages. I am sure there will be no objection. This change is only positive

Now think about next scenario. We added YR buildings to RA2. And people made a load of maps for RA2 with YR buildings.

1. How it is supposed to play these shit maps in services where society prefer to keep the original game?
2. Well, they aren't so popular atm. What if after few years CnCNet disappears into nothing and we go back to them or the newer ones?

Considering the present disadvantage of lack some structures in YR maps those structure can be added only in YR maps. This way we won't get compartability problems in future.

[CCCP84]

2 hours ago, Ezer_2000 said:

  3 hours ago, CCCP84 said:

The value in the original RA2 is correct.

[SPY]
Soylent=1000

[TANY]
Soylent=1000

why you changed my message?

These values are exactly what lead to the problem. Players start making money by simply reselling Tanya.

Edited May 23, 2021 by CCCP84

[CCCP84]

2 hours ago, Ezer_2000 said:

 

Now think about next scenario. We added YR buildings to RA2. And people made a load of maps for RA2 with YR buildings.

1. How it is supposed to play these shit maps in services where society prefer to keep the original game?
2. Well, they aren't so popular atm. What if after few years CnCNet disappears into nothing and we go back to them or the newer ones?

Considering the present disadvantage of lack some structures in YR maps those structure can be added only in YR maps. This way we won't get compartability problems in future.

But maps are already being created for YR. It is already impossible to play them in the original RA2.
Even my Oceania and Black Sea are designed for CNCNET. Oceania has over 100 waypoints and triggers using waypoints in excess of this number do not work correctly in the original RA2. And on the Black Sea there are barriers that are not supported by the original RA2.

I am convinced that now CNCNET sets the standards for Red Alert 2. Potential future projects will rely on the CNCNET base.

Edited May 23, 2021 by CCCP84

[McPwny]

are there versions of FA2 that dont read YR assets out there that you can use to avoid this kind of problem?

the flak trooper thing... it has "FIREPOWER,ROF" in both its VeteranAbilities= and EliteAbilities=, so i dont think that its elite wep is actually weaker even though it looks like the elite wep will do 4 less damage. the burst will also make it slightly more effective against grouped enemies AKA rocketeer spam so i think its fine.

[CCCP84]

35 minutes ago, McPwny said:

are there versions of FA2 that dont read YR assets out there that you can use to avoid this kind of problem?

the flak trooper thing... it has "FIREPOWER,ROF" in both its VeteranAbilities= and EliteAbilities=, so i dont think that its elite wep is actually weaker even though it looks like the elite wep will do 4 less damage. the burst will also make it slightly more effective against grouped enemies AKA rocketeer spam so i think its fine.

I have tested. Elite flak trooper is weaker.

Here is video that shows it too.

 

Edited May 23, 2021 by CCCP84

[McPwny]

huh. i guess that means that the westwood devs made the mistake of listing the veterancy buffs twice but not having them actually stack. i guess the proper thing to do would be to remove it from the veteran list or increase the elite weps damage. that said, i somehow doubt it will happen since there are a handful of other easy fix bugs in the game that have gone unpatched forever and ever

[CCCP84]

43 minutes ago, McPwny said:

 

what are these bugs?

[McPwny]

for example, newurban has 2 bugged iso tiles, snow has 1 bugged iso tile,  and several buildings dont render in all theaters

[cypher]

I wouldn't necessarily call these things you mentioned "changes", they are mainly bugfixes. They should be applied to the game in any case, without clicking on a "rebalance" button in the lobby. Same is f.e. with the CLEG-OilDerrick bug. This should be fixed without any question.

The discussion in the topic we had before (why you opened a new one?!) is about what balance changes are needed.

We all agreed that the patriot missile needs a buff f.e.. This is what pushes the game forward and most ppl prefer to play the game with the balance changes, when they are done the right way. Anyways, if you don't want to play with these changes you are free to not activate them.

Edited May 24, 2021 by cypher

[CCCP84]

2 hours ago, cypher said:

The discussion in the topic we had before (why you opened a new one?!) is about what balance changes are needed.

I only want to discuss changes to the base game here, not a patch. And such changes that will be unambiguous, as I said. Bug fixes and others. That will not cause controversy.
All these proposals, after agreement, I can add to the first post so that they can be implemented into the game.
I can add all these suggestions to the first post so that they can be implemented into the game.

[CCCP84]

I would also suggest making it impossible for players who have formed an alliance to take control of each other's units with Yuri.
This leads to the Soviets being able to spy easily, capturing their ally's spies with Yuri.

[bbglas007]

Some of these would be very hard to fix
-engine level changes

Some of these are easy but would stir argument 
 (flak trooper) - What amount of damage is reasonable for elite?

Also Chrono legionnaire Can shoot over walls
Elite Chrono legionnaire can NOT shoot over walls - Another Westwood mistake - Surely this was supposed to be inverted and the skillset be incrementally improved with veterancy rather than diminished? 

Edited May 25, 2021 by bbglas007

[ReaperAA]

6 hours ago, bbglas007 said:

Some of these are easy but would stir argument 
 (flak trooper) - What amount of damage is reasonable for elite?

I think increase in damage from 8 to 20 (while retaining burst=2) for elite would be reasonable. I say this because most units have their weapon firepower doubled when going from non-elite to elite.

 

6 hours ago, bbglas007 said:

Also Chrono legionnaire Can shoot over walls
Elite Chrono legionnaire can NOT shoot over walls - Another Westwood mistake - Surely this was supposed to be inverted and the skillset be incrementally improved with veterancy rather than diminished? 

I don't necessarily think it was meant to be inverted. I think that Westwood meant to make both non-elite and elite shoot through walls, but they forgot to update the elite weapon.

[Ezer_2000]

2 hours ago, ReaperAA said:

I don't necessarily think it was meant to be inverted. I think that Westwood meant to make both non-elite and elite shoot through walls, but they forgot to update the elite weapon.

Just notice how @ReaperAA again taking a side for buffing owerpowered Allies. Same as here https://forums.cncnet.org/topic/11738-yuris-revenge-rebalanced-20/page/5/#comments

 

 

 

[ReaperAA]

1 hour ago, Ezer_2000 said:

Just notice how @ReaperAA again taking a side for buffing owerpowered Allies. Same as here https://forums.cncnet.org/topic/11738-yuris-revenge-rebalanced-20/page/5/#comments

Nice of you to assume I am taking side of Allies here when I am actually a Soviet player.

Continue making yourself look like an ass.

Edited May 25, 2021 by ReaperAA

[Ezer_2000]

On 5/25/2021 at 9:32 PM, ReaperAA said:

Nice of you to assume I am taking side of Allies here when I am actually a Soviet player.

Correct, probably because you are suck at playing Allied side.

[ReaperAA]

28 minutes ago, Ezer_2000 said:

Correct, probably because you are suck at playing Allied side.

More assumptions. Please continue making yourself look like a fool

[ReaperAA]

Another change I have in mind is having elite Mirage Tanks actually using their elite weapon (of course with elite weapon readjusted and have the range reduced from 9 to 7).

I know not everyone will agree with this change (Ezer_2000 will probably throw Nuclear Missiles at me for this). But the reason why I think they should use the elite weapon is because:

1. AFAIK, they are the only tanks in the game that don't use an elite weapon when becoming elite.
2. The elite weapon exists in the ini file, and even allocated to the mirage tank in the form of EliteSecondary=MirageGunE. However, the mirage tank never uses the Elite Secondary weapon. I suspect it might be because WW changed the mirage disguise logic at one point, but then forgot to update the Elite weapon, as shown in the ini code.

Primary=MirageGun
DisguiseWhenStill=yes;gs I can no longer pick a disguise nor deploy
;Primary=TankMakeupKit
;Secondary=MirageGun
;IsSimpleDeployer=yes ;gs yeah for alpha date rewrite!
;OmniFire=yes
.
.
.
EliteSecondary=MirageGunE

At one point in development, the Secondary weapon was Mirage Tank's "firing" weapon and the primary (TankMakeupKit at that time) was used for the tree disguising. But then they changed the tree disguising logic and the firing weapon was made primary (and probably forgot to update the EliteSecondary to ElitePrimary)

 

With that being said though, I do think the elite weapon should be adjusted and made less powerful before assigning it to the Mirage Tank.

[MirageGunE]
Damage=150
ROF=80
Range=9
Projectile=InvisibleLow
Speed=100
Warhead=MirageWH
DisguiseFireOnly=no	; SJM: design change, tank can fire always
Report=MirageTankAttack
Bright=yes
DisguiseFakeBlinkTime=5 ; when a mirage fires, its disguise blinks for this long for VISUAL ONLY, not a logic blink
RevealOnFire=no ; Doesn't clear shroud when fired

I feel that the Range should be reduced from 9 to 7 (same as non-elite) and the DisguiseFakeBlinkTime should also be changed from 5 to 15 (again same as non-elite). In addition, the line Anim=VTMUZZLE should be added to give the tank a muzzle flash.

[Pyrite]

This is a more AI-related and complicated problem, but realistically why would tanks/tank crews aim at dogs when left to their own devices in early tank + fodder battles in the middle of nowhere? Shouldn't they ignore dogs, which can't hurt them at all?

And why would they just decide to kill their mind-controlled comrades instead of the enemy's mind control units even though they presumably know how mind control works and that they can reverse it by killing the mind controller? Shouldn't a Mastermind be considered a bigger threat than temporarily controlled units? Masterminds need a larger ThreatPosed value in the ini. Otherwise it just doesn't make sense.

Or when you're chronoshifting prisms/GI BFs or whatever to destroy key enemy buildings and they waste shots on some pillbox/sentry far away that they outrange. Like, why would you attack something that can't hurt you unless explicitly ordered to?

Edited June 9 by Pyrite

[PrezSpammer]

When a map reveal crate is picked up, there's always a slight pause—was never like this previously on other services. Another CNCNet-specific glitch (which I later learned has been going on since Day 1) is how if there's an Allied player with a spy satellite, a recon error is bound to happen if an opposing Allied player with multiple gap generators goes low power. It's most likely to occur in games that go on longer. Upon determining what was the root cause, several modded versions of ToE had spy sats removed as they were experiencing this glitch quite frequently. Another CNCNet-specific issue is with Soviet flak delay when there's opposing air units in groups... mainly Flak Cannons and Flak Tracks. I don't think Flak Troopers or Scorpions go through this. The best example is groups of opposing rockies. When a flak cannon or flak track shoots down one rocky, a pause will occur for a moment before it/they then start to fire at the next one. However, this doesn't happen against V3, Dread and Boomer missiles.

Then there's some legacy glitches that are still around...

—Choppers not fully deploying

—Choppers that become invulnerable after being "magged"

—V3 rockets that are undetectable by opposing anti-air if fired from the very edge of the map

—Dogs that leap into their buildings after engis/spies and get stuck inside

—Invisible MCV

—Gap Gen shrouds reappearing after a player quits and becomes an observer

For the game lobby, there's a quite a few things I've tried to suggest previously, but here's just a couple of others:

—Whichever slot a player lands in upon joining, they are to STAY in that exact slot until they leave or get kicked; it was like this on XWIS and worked extremely well. For example, if four players join at once and the guys in Slots 2 and 3 then leave, the player in Slot 4 still remains in Slot 4 rather than automatically move up—and likewise for the guy in Slot 5. This would help greatly to avoid accidentally kicking the wrong player when there's instances of multiple players joining/leaving at once.

—Add an option to mute game lobby sounds while a game is going on. This way, we're not being annoyed by someone who spammed "Go" multiple times before the host was able to hit "Launch" or if a player quits and leaves a bunch of salty remarks before departing the lobby. Players who are still in the game don't want to be annoyed by that ubiquitous lobby chat sound while trying to concentrate on playing. 

[aWarNoob1]

Some decent suggestions in here. I'll add a few more.

1.) Bring back option to play Ra2 music in YR gamemode.

2.) Clan tags. Doesn't need to be anything official but maybe just a slot next to nicknames to show what clan you want to claim to be in, or more than 12 character nicknames so we can add a longer clan name with our nickname. Something like this: [Sed0na]aWarNoob1

3.) Being able to private message a friend while he's in another game. This was possible on Xwis with certain lobby commands like /page0 or /page JohnDoe. I hear because it had a dedicated server as opposed to CnCNet's p2p servers. This functionality might not be possible on CnCNet which is unfortunate.

4.) Popup that shows what gameroom someone is in when you hover over their name in lobby. I think we used to have this feature.

5.) Client renders a Hi-resolution map preview for all custom maps. I think we used to have this on cnc, but was removed because it caused some bugs.

[ArabChuckNorris1]

RA2 Music in YR is a MUST! I feel like this is an easy fix and would love to see it. 

[aWarNoob1]

Ability to delete custom maps right from the client

 

edit: Nvm, I see we can already do this.

Edited July 3 by aWarNoob1