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CekaJ (Jake)

What are the 5 most popular/ played competitive 1v1 Yuri's Revenge maps?

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On 10/31/2017 at 3:59 AM, CekaJ (Jake) said:

Ban france because with no supers the grand cannon walk can be too good in some situations warping the game around the cannons themselves. (Offense defense, Tour of egypt, France is even more of a problem in team games)

Okay, I understand France can have the grand cannon walk on no superweapon game, but where's the part that makes them overpowered until they needed to be banned?

 

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france is actually quite shitty and hard to use vs good players. Just dont put crap maps like offense defense on, and u wont have any issues 

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On 29/10/2017 at 5:29 PM, XXxPrePxX said:

Nahhh man! Look at Justin/me/probably Marsh style of harass attack as allieds. It's the way to win in QM 1on1 most of the time against tough soviets. The way to go is the combo attacks and base trading end of game. Rockies + grizz + para + seal ifv if need be. That's not only effective, but a shit load of fun :D.

If u justin or marsh goes mutli war vs me as allies rather than tech i will run through you, i will have as many tanks and mine are almost x2 as strong. i have no doubts about this whatsoever.

When Marsh first came to YR we did a lot of qm's we would play both Ra2 and YR. He would ussually win the series ra2 and me on YR. He played YR like it was ra2 mass grizz/mass war etc, he failed time and time against me untill he learnt to adapt and tech first. The best Allied players i knew on YR always teched first. Most didnt even have to make a 2nd warfac. (e.g. dean/brett). 

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48 minutes ago, ZiGZaG said:

If u justin or marsh goes mutli war vs me as allies rather than tech i will run through you, i will have as many tanks and mine are almost x2 as strong. i have no doubts about this whatsoever.

When Marsh first came to YR we did a lot of qm's we would play both Ra2 and YR. He would ussually win the series ra2 and me on YR. He played YR like it was ra2 mass grizz/mass war etc, he failed time and time against me untill he learnt to adapt and tech first. The best Allied players i knew on YR always teched first. Most didnt even have to make a 2nd warfac. (e.g. dean/brett). 

When I played yuris as allied, I felt the same. The only strategy that worked for me was getting as many mirage ASAP.  Now, I do not share ur certainty, as I have been raped by hit N run allies from the soviet side of things, but my rationalization was that I was TOTALLY outplayed those games. But still the rape did leave a sense of doubt about the mirage-only theory.  Overall I agree with u that the strategy for allies (on yr) seem to be highly limited and that is why  I felt uncomfortable using them. 

Perhaps u can prove this by bashing Vwwwwww live AvS for us to enjoy ? Since u have no doubt whatsoever ^^

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Yeah -- I mean, I've successfully used allies hit n run on YR QM many times. I'm not saying that I've consistently beat the top players, but as allies that's always my go to. That said, I haven't used allies competitively in over a decade, so.... take it with a grain of salt.

I still agree that the most masterful way on YR is to tech, but that takes incredible skill/BO's on many maps and situations. Of course, situational tactics as Luci mentioned reign supreme over all, but in complete generality I have great confidence in the allies hit n run techniques.

I'd also love to see a good stream of you AvS vs. Justin or Vwwww since you are so confident.

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9 minutes ago, XXxPrePxX said:

I'd also love to see a good stream of you AvS vs. Justin or Vwwww since you are so confident.

 

listen if VWWWWWW has the balls to step up to the plate, ill smash him down.  

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On 11/1/2017 at 7:53 AM, XXxPrePxX said:

 

It doesn't take 9 years playing the game to understand balance. After all I'm the one who set up the buffalo vs marko series last month. I set it up with these exact rules: No Yuri no france no supers multi engi on. Our map pool was balanced and fair. The games were great and competitive and not once did we have to watch constant iron curtaining every 4 minutes. Buffalo even picked allies on reconcile and used chrono legionnaires to zap markos mcv. How often do  you see chrono legionnaires in supers games? You don't bevcause it's not the (M)ost (E)ffiecient (T)actic (A)vailable. Seriously tho most of the time for soviet the m.e.t.a. is making nothing but rhinos and some deso then if the game goes long iron curtain constantly. That closes off strats and thinking "How well can  i use my 9 invincible tanks every 4 minutes. 

I'd argue it's more fun and crazy with supers off. With all the focus freed up not having to worry about when the 9 invincible tanks are coming or where the teleported gi forts are going, people can split and do other shit. But yeah Kireek isn't in on this with me it's just me. That being said I invite you to play as allied vs @Kireeek 's iraq late game and then tell me if you really think it's unfair. Please come play him so we can stop talking about how op allied late game is. I used to think like you that we need supers on to have great games but once i saw how he plays soviet late game i realized the game is even more interesting with supers off. AND both factions a lot of the time end up utilizing more of their arsenal doing so. 

Sw ARE even more of a problem in team games as well. IMO sws should turned off 3v3 games or else it just comes down to who can iron chrono first or who can triple ic the same 9 tanks throughout their opponent bases. in 3v3 the game literally devolves into constant iron curtaining/ iron chrono-ing which is a joke. 

I know most of the good players on cncnet and have heard many's opinions on this. but yeah if you really wanna know how good i am then play me. More importantly please play Kireeek and he will show you you don't need super weapons for both factions to have a good game.

when can you play kireeek?

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Everything you said in your first paragraph is correct.

With all due respect to the great Kireeek, from the last time I saw his play, he was not at my level of play. Also, with your hypothetical game set as an allied player I do not play the long game, I play wars+para+grizz+___ style. I am more of an aggressive style player, so that challenge would be moot.

I agree SW in team games are often not the best for competitive skill-based play. This is because they are completely unpredictable and can end games fast without using skill in 3on3 / 4on4 games. Additionally, in team games you have players on your squad that are allies/soviets so you have easy counters to everything and the map is consumed by all players shortly. No reason for supers on in these games unless it's just for fun in FFGs, then they are a hell of a lot of fun.

I already agreed that if you hypothetically selected a handful of maps and turned supers off, you can have awesome skill based games AvS that might be the best that this game has to offer (for instance -- your set up with Buff/Marko was probably really great). However, my argument is not from selecting a few hand picked maps and banning teams like France/Yuri. I am interested in the most generalized set up that works across many different maps/situations and promotes a more creative style of play and for this, we often need supers on.

I will agree that if you wanted the best possible matchup between two amazingly skilled players, you'd want to have SW off and a very limited map pool.

I will disagree with you if you argue that this is the best route moving forward for anything like the global QM listing. It might be a great round robin tournament setup.

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8 hours ago, CekaJ (Jake) said:

It doesn't take 9 years playing the game to understand balance. After all I'm the one who set up the buffalo vs marko series last month. I set it up with these exact rules: No Yuri no france no supers multi engi on. Our map pool was balanced and fair. The games were great and competitive and not once did we have to watch constant iron curtaining every 4 minutes. Buffalo even picked allies on reconcile and used chrono legionnaires to zap markos mcv. How often do  you see chrono legionnaires in supers games? You don't bevcause it's not the (M)ost (E)ffiecient (T)actic (A)vailable. Seriously tho most of the time for soviet the m.e.t.a. is making nothing but rhinos and some deso then if the game goes long iron curtain constantly. That closes off strats and thinking "How well can  i use my 9 invincible tanks every 4 minutes. 

I'd argue it's more fun and crazy with supers off. With all the focus freed up not having to worry about when the 9 invincible tanks are coming or where the teleported gi forts are going, people can split and do other shit. But yeah Kireek isn't in on this with me it's just me. That being said I invite you to play as allied vs @Kireeek 's iraq late game and then tell me if you really think it's unfair. Please come play him so we can stop talking about how op allied late game is. I used to think like you that we need supers on to have great games but once i saw how he plays soviet late game i realized the game is even more interesting with supers off. AND both factions a lot of the time end up utilizing more of their arsenal doing so. 

Sw ARE even more of a problem in team games as well. IMO sws should turned off 3v3 games or else it just comes down to who can iron chrono first or who can triple ic the same 9 tanks throughout their opponent bases. in 3v3 the game literally devolves into constant iron curtaining/ iron chrono-ing which is a joke. 

I know most of the good players on cncnet and have heard many's opinions on this. but yeah if you really wanna know how good i am then play me. More importantly please play Kireeek and he will show you you don't need super weapons for both factions to have a good game.

when can you play kireeek?

This is why I like the idea of random supers for AvA, SvA and SvS in qm.  I think it would be a nice option for ffg's aswell.  XWIS qm had a function in these scenarios so that you didn't know if supers where on untill you built your battle lab. 

 

I agree with you late game sovs are just as powerful as allies if used correctly.

A large enough army of siege can take on any army in the game.

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3 hours ago, ZiGZaG said:

This is why I like the idea of random supers for AvA, SvA and SvS in qm.  I think it would be a nice option for ffg's aswell.  XWIS qm had a function in these scenarios so that you didn't know if supers where on untill you built your battle lab. 

 

I agree with you late game sovs are just as powerful as allies if used correctly.

A large enough army of siege can take on any army in the game.

Thank you. Yes but in regards to "RANDOM SUPERS" since when has a random number generator ever added to the competitiveness of a game? Dice rolls don't promote skill.Variance isn't suggested in ANY competitive game.That's why we don't play with crates either; their random.

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6 hours ago, XXxPrePxX said:

I already agreed that if you hypothetically selected a handful of maps and turned supers off, you can have awesome skill based games AvS that might be the best that this game has to offer (for instance -- your set up with Buff/Marko was probably really great). However, my argument is not from selecting a few hand picked maps and banning teams like France/Yuri. I am interested in the most generalized set up that works across many different maps/situations and promotes a more creative style of play and for this, we often need supers on.

Ok so you agree with everything i said except this one part. Now i see what you're interested in. You're interested in the most generalized set up that works across many different maps/situations and promotes a more creative style of play. That's good to be interested in but I am not interested in the same thing you are. I'm interested only in balance. 

Balance is all i am interested in. That being said what do we know about balance in yuri's revenge? We know that Yuri is too good on many maps. We know that xwis was dominated by iraq since yuri was banned on many maps, and we also know allied was never represented anywhere near as close as iraq while supers were on random. What we can discern from this? Either allied is incredibly hard to play or that in the absence of a free and respected yuri environment Iraq is better than allied. 

You said it yourself that iraq is overpowered. So therefore iraq is better than allied generally. So is there anything we can do to nerf iraq or buff allied to make them closer to evenly balanced? Yes. We can either mod the game files OR we can actually just turn supers off. Turning supers off in theory nerfs soviet slightly while also buffing allied slightly. 

It also opens up need for other units in each army's arsenal. I.e. Chrono legionnaires, v3, siege chopper, etc. Why build v3s if you can just kill that stuff with 9 invincible tanks. Why build legionnaires if you can just tele a gi fort there? Did you not say: I am interested in the most generalized set up that works across many different maps/situations and promotes a more creative style of play. 

Since when is nothing but rhinos and iron curtain creative? Are rhinos, siege choppers, v3, kirov, ivan bombs more creative than nothing but rhinos and iron curtain? Most would say yes so while i respect your opinions I just cannot see the logic in saying limiting soviet's late game to repetitive iron curtaining is a "creative style of play"

On the other hand allied have always had to be creative to get ahead vs soviet so allied is creative regardless. 

Turning supers off generally nerfs the what you call "overpowered soviet" and therefore buffs the faction which isn't as powerful. 

 

 

As someone who plays Yuri i also don't think it's fair if you only let yuri play on some maps. I would want Yuri to be playable on every map but sadly it would be not balanced. So either we ban yuri all together from competitive or only let yuri play on some maps. But i would never feel happy being a yuri player not being able to play the maps where my faction is at it's best. Why do i have to let someone else decide the maps Yuri can play on? Each map has to be figured out independently. That's more of a hassle than just deleting yuri from the quick match all together. Leave yuri to for fun games. Any right minded person should see only allowing some factions to be played on some maps does not add to a competitive format. 

france on the other hand may be playable but we'd have to test it. Would be dumb to have "those maps" where u just auto pick france. lol

 

Can you not see that nerfing the overpowered iraq and buffing allied makes the game more balanced? Turning supers off does this. Allied is generally stronger with supers off than if supers are on. You cannot argue that. Not that every game comes down to supers BUT wouldnt turning supers off increase the odds over all games played that allied comes out ahead? 

The only other option i see with superweapons is limiting them to mirror matches. That way they still get used but allied's win percentage against iraq is actually brought closer. Now that's a good solution!!!!

What do you think?

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Edit: Quote system sucks, had to delete post here. 

Edited by XXxPrePxX
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Problem here in the train of thought is that without SW, we can't play maps like Depth Charge, DVG, Hammer, Alasakan Oil .... pretty much any map that is dominated by water/campy points, which then it reverts back to our main agreeance/dispute.

I agree that maps that don't require SW's often have a more balanced matchup AvS without super weapons. However, then you need to eliminate a lot of these fun maps which have "creative" outputs in gameplay. 

In regards to Yuri, I think that is a poor way of thinking. "If I can't play my yuri on any map, then Yuri should just be banned!" I think you can see why this is. 
It is a hassle to go map-by-map and pick out ones that Yuri can be more balanced on, but that's why we are here :D. As an Iraq player, I would love to see Yuri banned from rank games, but that's just not going to fly in the community. Best to just find maps that at least give a player the chance to consistently beat yuri. 

The one problem with CNCNet and France that I am now seeing thanks to your post is that we now have the ability to pick our faction on a map-by-map basis. France on certain maps is close to broken (face down, offense defense perhaps). If, I, as the user, just chose France on certain maps and then other teams on other maps that does give a very big advantage to choosing France as it takes away the downside of having France on the 90% of maps that it is useless. Might be worth thinking about for the future.

I think what could be possible is non SW AvS games on a certain amount of maps, then mirror matchups on some of the more “creative” style maps with SW on so we get the best of both worlds. That seems to keep the best of both worlds happy where can still utilize all map scenarios yet have a more balanced AvS game where super weapons do not have to be on for both teams to have a chance long and short term. 

Thanks for posting good logical arguments and finding agreeable points. Sorry the quote system on here sucks so I couldn't line up my thoughts exactly with your paragraphs. 

Edited by XXxPrePxX

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On 03/11/2017 at 8:57 PM, CekaJ (Jake) said:

It doesn't take 9 years playing the game to understand balance. After all I'm the one who set up the buffalo vs marko series last month. I set it up with these exact rules: No Yuri no france no supers multi engi on. Our map pool was balanced and fair. The games were great and competitive and not once did we have to watch constant iron curtaining every 4 minutes. Buffalo even picked allies on reconcile and used chrono legionnaires to zap markos mcv. How often do  you see chrono legionnaires in supers games? You don't bevcause it's not the (M)ost (E)ffiecient (T)actic (A)vailable. Seriously tho most of the time for soviet the m.e.t.a. is making nothing but rhinos and some deso then if the game goes long iron curtain constantly. That closes off strats and thinking "How well can  i use my 9 invincible tanks every 4 minutes. 

I disagree with you there.

it does not take 9 years to understand the balance or w/e but from what I read, it’s that you are playing since 6 month? 1 year?

no offense to all others there, but I’m certainly the one who knows the game better than all others.

No offense to Buffalo or Mark. They are good ok. 

I have been playing this game since it is out. And I played stronger players (a lot and many!) than now. I also played others game as top players (c&c3, ra3). 

It’s not a problem of « balance », even vs Yuri, if played all good, all factions are almost equal. But no one now knows how to play any of them perfectly. So any players can beat any other. Whatever map/factions/SW bla-bla-bla. 

People are making too many mistakes that they can’t talk about balance. 

I played in WOL, I can tell you top100-200 from WOL would rape all best players from there. Any map. Any factions. 

And there was top allied players beating soviet/Yuri a lot stronger than now

And even in XWIS time, top20-30 could do the same.

instead of talking we should do QM’s, and re-learn the game as competitive game and try to improve our gameplay. All players including me, you and all others. 

 

When someone will manage the game perfectly we could talk about balance but unfortunately it will never happen anymore. Thus, for us, the game is enough balanced. 

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1 hour ago, LeOwNzAll said:

no offense to all others there, but I’m certainly the one who knows the game better than all others.

No offense to Buffalo or Mark. They are good ok. 

I have been playing this game since it is out. And I played stronger players (a lot and many!) than now. I also played others game as top players (c&c3, ra3). 

It’s not a problem of « balance », even vs Yuri, if played all good, all factions are almost equal. But no one now knows how to play any of them perfectly. So any players can beat any other. Whatever map/factions/SW bla-bla-bla. 

People are making too many mistakes that they can’t talk about balance. 

I played in WOL, I can tell you top100-200 from WOL would rape all best players from there. Any map. Any factions. 

You just typed so much retarded bullshit that I don't even know where to start.

Yuri aint OP? Stfu. Not even gonna explain why that's stupid. And Idc if you're talking about ra2 or YR, people were not better on WOL than they are now, and not many were as good after redirection as the best players are now. I think you want to believe that because beating a bunch of noobs on a ladder full of noobs made you think you were good. And if you really know the game better than everyone else, surely you can get some wins vs some of the better players 1v1? The only oldschool people that make these kind of claims are the ones that suck now because they were not that great to begin with. There aren't 1000 average players for them to hide behind and they just throw the "i'm rusty" excuse out there. I quit ra2 for 6 years and came back and was good in a month. I took me a few weeks to get good at YR. You're either good or you're not and you ain't shit

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7 hours ago, VWWWWWWWWWWW said:

You just typed so much retarded bullshit that I don't even know where to start.

Yuri aint OP? Stfu. Not even gonna explain why that's stupid. And Idc if you're talking about ra2 or YR, people were not better on WOL than they are now, and not many were as good after redirection as the best players are now. I think you want to believe that because beating a bunch of noobs on a ladder full of noobs made you think you were good. And if you really know the game better than everyone else, surely you can get some wins vs some of the better players 1v1? The only oldschool people that make these kind of claims are the ones that suck now because they were not that great to begin with. There aren't 1000 average players for them to hide behind and they just throw the "i'm rusty" excuse out there. I quit ra2 for 6 years and came back and was good in a month. I took me a few weeks to get good at YR. You're either good or you're not and you ain't shit

 

9 hours ago, LeOwNzAll said:

I disagree with you there.

it does not take 9 years to understand the balance or w/e but from what I read, it’s that you are playing since 6 month? 1 year?

no offense to all others there, but I’m certainly the one who knows the game better than all others.

No offense to Buffalo or Mark. They are good ok. 

I have been playing this game since it is out. And I played stronger players (a lot and many!) than now. I also played others game as top players (c&c3, ra3). 

It’s not a problem of « balance », even vs Yuri, if played all good, all factions are almost equal. But no one now knows how to play any of them perfectly. So any players can beat any other. Whatever map/factions/SW bla-bla-bla. 

People are making too many mistakes that they can’t talk about balance. 

I played in WOL, I can tell you top100-200 from WOL would rape all best players from there. Any map. Any factions. 

And there was top allied players beating soviet/Yuri a lot stronger than now

And even in XWIS time, top20-30 could do the same.

instead of talking we should do QM’s, and re-learn the game as competitive game and try to improve our gameplay. All players including me, you and all others. 

 

When someone will manage the game perfectly we could talk about balance but unfortunately it will never happen anymore. Thus, for us, the game is enough balanced. 

It's true you got rank 1 on cnc3 when it came out. I'm just confused, being one of the best Yuri faction players i've ever seen way back when and having a wealth of knowledge, i am sure you've seen crazy tactics to beat yuri, and i am sure that nobody really plays a style like that these days (Engi eat/engi/ivan/drones). However, I'm sure you can agree you were happy to see a soviet player or an allied player on most maps in QM. Yuri is the best faction and i know you know this while maybe its not as OP as it seems (due to maps and "laming" tactics) someone who can use 123456 with there mags will be skillful enough to beat almost anyone as yuri

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15 hours ago, VWWWWWWWWWWW said:

You just typed so much retarded bullshit that I don't even know where to start.

Yuri aint OP? Stfu. Not even gonna explain why that's stupid. And Idc if you're talking about ra2 or YR, people were not better on WOL than they are now, and not many were as good after redirection as the best players are now. I think you want to believe that because beating a bunch of noobs on a ladder full of noobs made you think you were good. And if you really know the game better than everyone else, surely you can get some wins vs some of the better players 1v1? The only oldschool people that make these kind of claims are the ones that suck now because they were not that great to begin with. There aren't 1000 average players for them to hide behind and they just throw the "i'm rusty" excuse out there. I quit ra2 for 6 years and came back and was good in a month. I took me a few weeks to get good at YR. You're either good or you're not and you ain't shit

There is no point to discuss if WOL was better and if XWIS was also or not. 

To be honest I never met you either in WOL/XWIS, maybe you were good and you know also how played players before. 

All i know is that when I played in WOL as allied/sov/Yuri I could not do any mistake. Mistake IS NOT lost 2-3 rhinos for nothing. It was question of pop-up the sentry or not? Save 500$ or pop-up it, maybe resist but loss the game after. It was question of scouting with 1 or 2 dog ? To save 200$ and tech faster etc. There was lot of noobs you are right. But there was also lot of good players.

Even on XWIS people could do « small » mistake (forget to build during attack, make a minor mistake in the BO etc.) and still win.

nowadays, from what i see and read it’s revelant for me that the level needs to increase. For example, zigzag presented the tactic as allied teching up as fast as possible. I read that prep thought its good but require « incredible skill ». And I completely agree with what zigzag wrote. And before all good allied players teched as fast as possible. 

I think it would be more interesting for players to make a new topic for example « as Allied - tips to beat sov on DP » for example. Sell mvc? Multi war? Rocki? Tech? Etc. Discuss about it to find the best way to win as allied instead of crying.

I take this example because I read somewhere that this map was sov. From my experience it’s a perfect map. So there are tips to win as allied, even vs best sovs.

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Lol, Leo -- now, I respect you as the best current Yuri faction player on the game. So, don't take this the wrong way from me...

But you've posted a ton of 'retarded bullshit'  here (to quote Matt).

  1. You claim that the old WOL players would wipe the floor with the players today first, and then you retract by stating that there is no point to discuss it. The evolved players of today would destroy the old players. The only thing the old players had going from them was activity. The bo's have been mastered and the few top players that are still left would destroy them today. Besides -- you are right that it is useless discussing this, their two pretty different systems -- WOL had some 30 maps thrown in with no regard to balancing issues, had a 3 minute (JESUS CHRIST) bail timer, and had an active base of 100,000's of newbs.
  2. You are claiming that you could not make any mistakes and win games back then? Where are you going with this absurd claim? Of course you could make mistakes and win back then. It's no different from today, lol. You did not have to play perfect to win back then, much like you do not have to play perfect to win now. In fact, it is even worse in terms of making mistakes now compared to then. Why?  Because now, on average, you are playing a tougher opponent with no protective 3 minute bail time. If I made a mistake on WOL, I just say ok, bye, quit game get no recorded loss.
  3. One of the possible reasons allied players teched as fast as possible on WOL was because there was an insane 3 minute bail time. If someone rushed an allied they'd just quit. lolol.
  4. You seem to be insinuating that there is no or very little balance issues and that players should just 'man up' and play the game. Good luck with that argument.
  5. If you think Yuri isn't OP then your opinion is pretty worthless here. Especially considering that you've only played Yuri in the past 10 years from what I recall in the ladder standings. Bias much?

 

Edited by XXxPrePxX

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Leo,

YR WOL times were greatly different, there is no question about that. 3 minute bail time, a ton of random maps in QM led to a Yuri's and allied dominance over the ladder. That just makes sense.

Check this ladder out from December 24, 2002, you are rank 3. There are 9 Yuri faction players out of 11 in the top 11.

http://web.archive.org/web/20021224210720/http://games2.westwood.com:80/yuriX_ladder/ranking.html

June 14, 2002: http://web.archive.org/web/20020614182537/http://games2.westwood.com:80/yuriX_ladder/ranking.html

Nov 14, 2001: http://web.archive.org/web/20011114085956/http://games2.westwood.com:80/yuriX_ladder/ranking.html

1 Soviet player in top 10
 

I mean, I'm not trying to prove anything by posting wayback machine snapshots of the ladder from 2002 era other than it was a completely different style of play and it was incredibly imbalanced. We have honed the game since then.

 

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damn, those top players then were just bashing a bunch of noobs and never playing each other it seems

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1 hour ago, Gun_Man said:

damn, those top players then were just bashing a bunch of noobs and never playing each other it seems

The problem was WOL did not have a matching filter early on, so you'd match with whomever you got matched with... and with 100,000+++ players, you can imagine how difficult it was to find a top 50 player.

Of course, a WOL matching filter was eventually implemented to help this (thus you matched players within a certain point range).

 

Additionally, you'd bail players who were better then you under 3 minutes.

And also, a number of players would DC when losing.

Also, the fact that you had a very special 3* badge at 1001 points (the real signification that you were 'somebody') made players do anything and everything to reach the 1001 points mark (they'd push each other to 1001 points, then they'd use the 1001 points name immediately to push the other person, etc.).

Edited by XXxPrePxX

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6 hours ago, XXxPrePxX said:

Lol, Leo -- now, I respect you as the best current Yuri faction player on the game. So, don't take this the wrong way from me...

But you've posted a ton of 'retarded bullshit'  here (to quote Matt).

  1. You claim that the old WOL players would wipe the floor with the players today first, and then you retract by stating that there is no point to discuss it. The evolved players of today would destroy the old players. The only thing the old players had going from them was activity. The bo's have been mastered and the few top players that are still left would destroy them today. Besides -- you are right that it is useless discussing this, their two pretty different systems -- WOL had some 30 maps thrown in with no regard to balancing issues, had a 3 minute (JESUS CHRIST) bail timer, and had an active base of 100,000's of newbs.
  2. You are claiming that you could not make any mistakes and win games back then? Where are you going with this absurd claim? Of course you could make mistakes and win back then. It's no different from today, lol. You did not have to play perfect to win back then, much like you do not have to play perfect to win now. In fact, it is even worse in terms of making mistakes now compared to then. Why?  Because now, on average, you are playing a tougher opponent with no protective 3 minute bail time. If I made a mistake on WOL, I just say ok, bye, quit game get no recorded loss.
  3. One of the possible reasons allied players teched as fast as possible on WOL was because there was an insane 3 minute bail time. If someone rushed an allied they'd just quit. lolol.
  4. You seem to be insinuating that there is no or very little balance issues and that players should just 'man up' and play the game. Good luck with that argument.
  5. If you think Yuri isn't OP then your opinion is pretty worthless here. Especially considering that you've only played Yuri in the past 10 years from what I recall in the ladder standings. Bias much?

Agreed. 

Most allied players try to tech fast today as well. On ra2, a Iot of the time I teched faster than almost everyone. But SW is usually off. On YR, I tech quickly sometimes, but in many situations if allieds tries to tech fast, it's free win for the sov if they tech quickly also. So saying allied players should tech fast, or that teching fast is better/more skilful is just wrong. It depends entirely on the map/situation. But zigzag mostly plays sov, and apparently leo mostly plays yuri, so not really sure why either are trying to debate how an allied player should play ;)

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6 hours ago, VWWWWWWWWWWW said:

Agreed. 

Most allied players try to tech fast today as well. On ra2, a Iot of the time I teched faster than almost everyone. But SW is usually off. On YR, I tech quickly sometimes, but in many situations if allieds tries to tech fast, it's free win for the sov if they tech quickly also. So saying allied players should tech fast, or that teching fast is better/more skilful is just wrong. It depends entirely on the map/situation. But zigzag mostly plays sov, and apparently leo mostly plays yuri, so not really sure why either are trying to debate how an allied player should play ;)

You normally play ra2 so not sure why your debating how to play on YR ;)

 

Now I'm not claiming to be a strong allied player, but I've played long enough to know enough.. like you said earlier I'm just saying what works in my experience. From a sov perspective on YR if an allied enemy's techs they have much more chance of winning against me. I do agree there is a 4-5 minute window where they are vulnerable once they tech. 

 

I agree it depends on the situation but I find it difficult to think of a map where an allied player could multi war without a lab and be successful on YR. Grizzly just don't hold up like in ra2.

I think you are underestimating the difference between RA2/YR. Grizzly don't build faster here so you have even less plastic tanks than usual.

 

Ask Marsh or tej they are probably at ur level if not better than you with allies? like I said we did loads of games on YR QM for a long time and mass war without lab as allies doesn't work vs a good Soviet on YR.

It's been a common mistake by Ra2 players on YR for years.

Edited by ZiGZaG

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On 04/11/2017 at 8:05 AM, CekaJ (Jake) said:

Thank you. Yes but in regards to "RANDOM SUPERS" since when has a random number generator ever added to the competitiveness of a game? Dice rolls don't promote skill.Variance isn't suggested in ANY competitive game.That's why we don't play with crates either; their random.

I disagree with this. I think the random supers factor made the game much more interesting and competitive, with random supers it would depend on the map and situation to try and tech up. With supers always on It's just a race for the IC.

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