Suggestions and feedback needed for the Yuri's Revenge CnCNet 5 client

[blackn0x]

I have this problem where the maps in the list doesn't display unless I mark them with my mouse pointer, the maps seems to be there, they just doesn't show up unless I click on them with the mouse pointer. Attached this image to show you where the maps displaying are only the ones I clicked on, and once I try to scroll the list they are gone again. Is this a known problem with the beta?

 

Edit: this only seems to happen with the "cncnet5_yr_skirmish.bat" btw.

[Nyerguds]

There's also no background... could be a user rights issue where it can't access its files? Or does this test version simply not have a background yet?

[Iran]

It's a bug with the program itself, still need to fix it. It's on my todo list and I'll look into it in the next few days. It's an easy fix. You can also play skirmish games by just opening the normal client (non-Skirmish version) and starting a game with only AI players.

[blackn0x]

Thanks, great work you guys are doing. Old games like this can be hard to get working properly these days. I've always enjoyed C&C since the first one came out in the 90s, but the last good one in my opinion was ra2. Too bad westwood isn't around anymore to make another one, they made the best ones.

[yahoo]

HI guys,

I dont know if its just me but I noticed that lag and discon issues are related to the Tunnel server you use. CNC USA seems to be good and not much problems.

[Grant]

Thanks for notifying - will report this back to the developers .

[TyphoonAttackSub]

I am constantly loading with no one in the game, using the Australian tunnel will try the USA one and see if that works. Seems to be happening in other peoples games too. Thing is I played fine yesterday so not sure of the issue.

[Inego]

i dont know if this can be done but there is my suggestion:

 

add 2 new faction: ALLIED and SOviet

 

in this it will include all allied speciality and same for soviet

or maybe it will pick a random team in allied or soviet

 

that would be cool

[hardman]

ability to page players in game would be cool

[yahoo]

would be nice to have same features as the ra1 client like player countries  and IRC functions .

[55aa]

While the YR client allows nicknames of up to 16 characters in length, if a nick indeed has 16 characters...

 

 

...then that user never actually loads, and the last, 16th character of his nickname on the loading screen is replaced by an odd symbol:

 

 

(Interestingly enough, from the "offending" user's point of view everybody seems to load fine, and only after his game has started he gets a disconnection screen showing that he doesn't actually have a connection to anybody else.)

 

I suspect that the game itself might be storing nicks in arrays of 16

char

s including a terminating '

\0

', so the actual character limit would be one less. The obvious remedy is for the client to simply limit the length of a nick to 15 characters.

EDIT: added some further info in the Bug tracker thread.

[Grant]

Thank you - will add this to the bug tracker.

[55aa]

The 

Scroll Rate

  sliders in

Settings 

>

YR Settings

  and 

Settings 

>

RA2 Settings

  have their positions inverted (i.e. maximum scroll speed has the slider sitting all the way to the left, rather than all the way to the right as it should be).

 

EDIT: This mishap most likely occured due to the fact that the raw

.ini 

values for scroll speed (and also game speed) are rather counterintuitive, with

6

representing minimum and

0

representing maximum speed respectively.

[[CC] RaVaGe]

My large suggestions post

 

After playing the Yuri's Revenge on the new CnCNet client I've come to love it, for it's speed and ease of use.

However, I believe that the client could be greatly improved to offer the players a much friendlier, convenient experience.

 

So to start, I'm going to specify a few annoyances that should be removed.

Some of these have been highlighted by some of the players that I've invited to CnCNet.

 

 

Client annoyances

 

• Interface sounds

These sounds need settings for enabling a user to disable/enable them and/or to control the volume level of these effects.

A lot of them can be quite annoying after a while, if possible they should be revamped with more pleasant versions, that don't sound so intrusive.

 

 

• Blocking/Ignoring users

Some of the players on CnCNet can be quite pesky and there's currently no way to stop them from spamming other players.

Adding a "ignore this user" or "block" button to the Private Message menu would fix this issue.

 

 

• Game Hosting Settings

After setting up a game, with a player's preferred settings such as map, faction, game mode, options... etc  the settings get reset after re-hosting the game.

This doesn't happen with the persistent lobby option ticked, however, no one who's active would end up being the host for longer than a few games.

Which causes this reset to become quite annoying, I've noticed quite a few players complaining about this or asking me how to make the lobby remember all the settings.

 

 

• Game mode - Battle

Hosting games with this default mode doesn't allow players to ally in game as is possible in the original game.

It has led to confusion in many cases where players have hosted games expecting to ally after game start

(for random teams and positions, as preferred by veterans).

 

 

 

Client Improvements / Features

 

• Social Networking / Interaction

Currently the client doesn't allow players to form buddy lists or invite players to each others games besides through chat.

When hosting a game or being in a hosted game it would be convenient to invite players from lobby and through a friends list by right clicking their username  and choosing "invite to game" from a context menu or some other more intuitive way.

 

 

• Tabbed Private Messages

The current way the PM window is managed is horrible in terms of user friendliness, sometimes with multiple chats some messages go unnoticed due to the way the chats are put into a drop down menu. Instead, something like what steam has would be much more functional and user friendly.

 

Example

 

Current

 

 

 

• Add a helpful context menu

 

 

When right clicking a player in the lobby a context menu could pop up with options such as.

 

+ Add to friends

+ Invite to game

+ Send a message

+ Check rank

+ Challenge

+ Ignore this player

+ Block this player

 

For invites, challenges and friend list additions the player receiving a notification of these events could be shown just a chat message or a pop-up with the appropriate title along with respective controls for responding to the notification. Such as buttons for "Join game", "Accept Challenge", "Decline", "Add to Friends".

With feedback in turn sent to the player who sent the invite at first, such as "playername has declined the invitation to join this game."

 

 

[55aa]

As a matter of fact, many (if not most) of the desired features you listed are already available in Funkyfresh's client for the pre-RA2 games. Personally I'd much welcome support for RA2/YR added to that client rather than reinventing the wheel with another one, but apparently there are some reasons for why Iran adapted Rampastring's TDotTA/TI client for YR instead. Hopefully one day a unified solution for all CnCNet-supported games, with all the benefits and none of the drawbacks, emerges.

 

 

sometimes with multiple chats some messages go unnoticed due to the way the chats are put into a drop down menu.

If I understood correctly what you're referring to, then it's not really the client's fault, but much rather a result of Windows' default behavior (on XP it was called "Grouping of similar taskbar buttons", on 7 it's "Taskbar buttons combining", etc.). You can edit the relevant options in your taskbar properties to prevent that, and to keep every open window's taskbar button separate and always in view (here is some info on this for Windows 7 and 8 ).

 

 

no one who's active would end up being the host for longer than a few games.

I'm not sure what the issue is with one person hosting games repeatedly (define "active"?).

 

 

Hosting games with this default mode doesn't allow players to ally in game as is possible in the original game.

That's admittedly a real bummer, and should be fixed as a priority IMHO. In addition to that, options should be added enabling the host to force random starting spots and no preset teams - that would allow to prevent players from meddling with options endlessly, starting the game much quicker with random teams instead. (IIRC, RA1 already has at least a "force random starting spots" option - this should be added to TS and YR too, along with a "no preset teams" option).

 

[Nyerguds]

• Interface sounds

These sounds need settings for enabling a user to disable/enable them and/or to control the volume level of these effects.

A lot of them can be quite annoying after a while, if possible they should be revamped with more pleasant versions, that don't sound so intrusive.

I looked into volume, and it seems like adjusting the volume of a played sound is actually a horribly complicated matter. All tutorials I found seemed to mess with the whole system volume. The only other alternative was actually modifying the sound and doing volume decrease algorithms on its binary data before playing it.

[[CC] RaVaGe]

If I understood correctly what you're referring to, then it's not really the client's fault, but much rather a result of Windows' default behavior (on XP it was called "Grouping of similar taskbar buttons", on 7 it's "Taskbar buttons combining", etc.). You can edit the relevant options in your taskbar properties to prevent that, and to keep every open window's taskbar button separate and always in view (here is some info on this for Windows 7 and 8 ).

 

No you didn't and skipped far ahead in giving advice.

Look at the "Current" private chat screenshot above, there's a drop down menu for selecting the chat's recipient.

I know my way around Windows XP > 7 quite well, most of my system is heavily tweaked and optimized.

 

 

I'm not sure what the issue is with one person hosting games repeatedly (define "active"?).

 

It's not the matter of a person hosting games continously, it's the fact that a I might host one or two games, before players leave my games to join other games or log off.

In which case I need to join someone else, but if I were to host a game after playing in some one else's hosted game the hosting settings for my 'custom game lobby' would be reset to client defaults, which kinda suck.

 

While I'm on that subject I'd like to add that by default the "build off ally" option is enabled by default in the original games, so I hope it defaults to on in the future.

Along with the custom game lobby saving last used hosting settings.

 

 

That's admittedly a real bummer, and should be fixed as a priority IMHO. In addition to that, options should be added enabling the host to force random starting spots and no preset teams - that would allow to prevent players from meddling with options endlessly, starting the game much quicker with random teams instead. (IIRC, RA1 already has at least a "force random starting spots" option - this should be added to TS and YR too, along with a "no preset teams" option).

 

There are differences in the gameplay though.

Forcing random teams would end up making the game luck based in high skill level matches.

With factions like "Great britain (sniper)" vs "America (paradrop)" or vs "Iraq (desolator)".

 

Enabling the host to lock the game options (including his own faction) at a certain point might work, but can still be abused.

Many skilled players hosted custom games for this reason on XWIS to abuse the ability to change faction and quickly start the game with a more advantageous faction.

 

YR already supports random starting spots.

Also the host can change the settings for all the players to prevent any players from picking a starting location.

 

 

 

@Nyerguds

Wouldn't it be preferable to just add more pleasant sounds instead? Ones that have a lower volume as well.

The annoying sounds would also cause the players to be slightly more aggressive, which should be prevented as much as possible.

[55aa]

No you didn't and skipped far ahead in giving advice.

Look at the "Current" private chat screenshot above, there's a drop down menu for selecting the chat's recipient.

Alright, I see now (apparently I haven't had more than one private chat open at any given time thus far). I assumed particular private chats are separate windows like in Funky's client (where what I was talking about would apply). I agree that the way it's currently done in the YR client is not optimal, and tabs or separate windows would be preferred.

 

 

It's not the matter of a person hosting games continously, it's the fact that a I might host one or two games, before players leave my games to join other games or log off.

In which case I need to join someone else, but if I were to host a game after playing in some one else's hosted game the hosting settings for my 'custom game lobby' would be reset to client defaults, which kinda suck.

TBH I didn't myself experience the above to be much of an issue, but I suppose it's a matter where your proverbial milage may vary heavily.

 

 

While I'm on that subject I'd like to add that by default the "build off ally" option is enabled by default in the original games, so I hope it defaults to on in the future.

IMHO the default settings should most closely reflect what is being used in practice most often, which doesn't necessarily have to be the original games' default settings (for instance, originally superweapons are on by default in RA2/YR, while I find most games are being played with them off). In TS, you can recognize completely new people easily because they use the default CnCNet settings, which differ significantly from what is actually being used by experienced players in most games.

 

 

Along with the custom game lobby saving last used hosting settings.

That's quite an obvious thing to expect, and I hope too that it's going to be implemented soon.

 

 

There are differences in the gameplay though.

Forcing random teams would end up making the game luck based in high skill level matches.

With factions like "Great britain (sniper)" vs "America (paradrop)" or vs "Iraq (desolator)".

 

Enabling the host to lock the game options (including his own faction) at a certain point might work, but can still be abused.

Many skilled players hosted custom games for this reason on XWIS to abuse the ability to change faction and quickly start the game with a more advantageous faction.

I'm not sure you understood me correctly, I never talked about faction selection, but rather about starting spot selection and team (A/B/C/D) selection. Faction and color selection seem fairly unproblematic (if you neglect the occasional "omg no yuri" protests), it's the starting spot and team (i.e. pre-game alliance) where most prolonged and uncoordinated tinkering takes place, which can delay getting the game started significantly.

 

 

YR already supports random starting spots.

It does, but it doesn't support enforcing them to actually stay random, like RA1 does:

 

 

 

Also the host can change the settings for all the players

While that's true...

 

to prevent any players from picking a starting location.

...this unfortunately isn't. The host having specified another player's option does not set it in stone, there's no way to prevent stubborn or confused folks to keep meddling with their settings and just rechanging them (see above). This has been an annoyance in TS over a year ago already (at least traditional in-game allying using the 'a' key always worked there, as opposed to YR where right now pre-game alliances are the only option to ally at all).

 

IMHO ideally every setting category (faction, color, spot, team) should have two flags changeable only by the host, one being "force random" (or "force none" in the case of teams, i.e. so that alliances can only be made in-game), and another "freeze host's selection". With the first flag set the given setting category would be locked at "random"/"none" for everyone, with the second flag set a given setting would become locked for a given user if the host has explicitly specified it.

 

 

 

[Jacko]

Or maybe just a lock that prevents anyone but the host from changing anything?

[hardman]

Build off ally should be on by default imo. It is on by default in the original game and I hadn't experienced this being different until playing on CNCnet. I always assume it is on and am sure everyone else also does that plays/played on XWIS. In team games it can be (and should be) key, after all you are all 'in it together'. A particular tactic in clan matches was even for both players to build off of one mcv if you got certain starting positions.

[55aa]

I'd also vote for making the "Multi Engineer" option default (while it isn't available via the standard RA2/YR in-game interface, it is available in the CnCNet5 YR client), as it helps prevent cheap engineer rushes. It is a fixed standard in RA1 and is routinely used in TS, so I don't see why it shouldn't be made a default option in RA2 too.

[hardman]

whilst engineering is lame it has been a consistent feature throughout Ra2 and YR history. I don't see any harm in making it default tho i guess.

[hardman]

The ability to team in game (and therefore the ability to start a match with random spots and teams) is something i would really like to see added.

[[CC] RaVaGe]

I'd also vote for making the "Multi Engineer" option default (while it isn't available via the standard RA2/YR in-game interface, it is available in the CnCNet5 YR client), as it helps prevent cheap engineer rushes. It is a fixed standard in RA1 and is routinely used in TS, so I don't see why it shouldn't be made a default option in RA2 too.

 

 

I'm against this as engineer rushes can be easily countered with good scouting, battlefield awareness and the experience on how to deal with it.

Therefor it's skill based.

[Seke]

I also don't think ANYTHING other than glitch fixes should be default changes unless it's overwhelmingly apparent that 99% of the community wants a change.