Tiberian Dawn hardest in the series?

[Chimas]

For covert operations, I had great fun for a long time with Infiltrated and Twist of Fate.

They are not hard anymore, but I still play them.

I'm a great fan of desert maps. More recently, I became fan of snow maps, although not a stock scenario.

[KILL]

Yeah, see, I can handle that mission SO easily now. It's just knowing where to drive to set up a base, knowing what's coming, etc.

And yeah, my comments on AI were more about how they always attack the northern most thing, or whatever attacks them. So you just move things that don't take much dmg to the certain projectiles, in range, and then attack with everything else. Yeah, true, like 10 tanks won't sort everything out, but if you use a mixed army, you'll do much better. Put some troops in front of the tanks and let the obelisk waste it's shots on them, also take 2-3 hummers with you to snipe flamer inf. The grens will kill the buildings much faster, also. (remember, the ob has light armor, so HE weapons will do more than the AP tank shots).

 

All this sort of knowledge makes the campaign super easy, BUT, if you don't know it, you'll get wrecked, haha

 

  -Liam

Well that's exactly it.  In Tib Sun you can go full Titan's or Disruptor's and easily destroy any units or wreck a base.  In Tiberian Dawn you need a good mix of infantry/tanks in your army.  Medium tank's just don't have the range or damage compared to a Titan, so you can't stack them.

 

For a game released nearly 20 years ago, I am impressed by the AI.  Sure, if you run units past them and don't attack, they will ignore you as if they were blind.  Once you attack something though, they respond immediately.  The AI is aggressive and will continue to pump out units until they have nothing left.  Compare Tiberian Dawn's AI to something like Starcraft 1.  The AI in that game was so predictable.  It would attack you in 3-4 waves of different units and then it gave up, regardless of difficulty.

 

Sure, I guess you can quickly scout a map and then restart the mission.  That kind of takes the fun out of it though because the maps are so small.

[Kilkakon]

TS was pretty hard for me. I played through the Nod campaign, up to the final level. Can't stand TS' GDI so didn't play them. The main reason it was hard? All beam weapons had a good 75% chance to Internal Error when fired. On the stock game off the TFD disc. Soooo I had to use Artillery and Ticktanks to defend (they are fun though). Then GDI got disruptors which was a major pain as I had to airstrike them before they crashed the game... eventually got too difficult to prevent them firing

 

TD all the way of course. I've actually yet to finish Nod Death Squad, although I believe I've completed most if not all the others.

[KILL]

I just completed the NOD campaign.  It was just as fun as the GDI campaign and cutscenes were hilariously cheesy.  No difference in difficulty though.

 

I'd say GDI has the better tanks.  Not a fan of the Tick Tank's and I found stealth tanks are only good for scouting.  The best strat for me was just going mass artillery to wipe out their base.  I never had a problem with air units, not even on the last mission.  Another strat I employed was massing the Subterranean APC and engineers.  I just scouted the GDI base, then went in and sold all their buildings.

 

Firestorm next!

[AchromicWhite]

Yeah... well, you can do it with tanks alone, but you need loads of them, haha.

Yes, you're better to make a mix of units, which, also means that the multiplayer works (arguably... each to their own), better than TS.

I hope you had fun with it, it can be more fun the second time through, etc, as you can start to know what to make earlier.

But yes, even myself, who has played through those campaigns SO many times, will still do regular saves, certainly at the start of some missions, as to not have to restart the whole thing when something goes wrong.

Like the Nod flame tank mission/stealth tank mission. GDI commando mission etc.

So I guess, yeah, it's pretty ruff. And yes, the AI not only keeps making stuff, but it also cheats to get more resources, so certainly harder than SC/SCII

  -Liam

[X3M]

Ok, these 2 things are the same:

 

In TD, we have a light tank of 600 and medium tank of 800. 1 Medium tank can kill 2 light tanks if they approach 1 by 1.

In C&C 3, we have a scorpion tank of 800 and a predator tank of 1100. 1 Predator tank can kill 2 scorpion tanks if they approach 1 by 1.

 

Now, when it comes to mass battle's. GDI has it easier in TD and NOD has it harder in TD.

Why? The size of the units is 1, always 1. No matter how strong they are, it is one. In C&C 3, the predator tanks have size 11, while the scorpion tanks have size 8. (Perhaps someone can provide with exact numbers)

With a size of exact 1, it means that the stronger tanks get that approaching bonus. Thus the medium tank keeps the bonus (in amass, not just 1 v 2) while the predator tank has not.

 

So, if TD was the hardest in the series? Well, regarding NOD, it is!!!

Regarding GDI, well, with those artillery in TS, I say TS. That is, until fire storm was added for the juggernaughts.

 

So, obviously GDI is canon in TD.

Perhaps NOD should have been the canon winner in TS, what do you guys think?

[KILL]

Yeah... well, you can do it with tanks alone, but you need loads of them, haha.

Yes, you're better to make a mix of units, which, also means that the multiplayer works (arguably... each to their own), better than TS.

I hope you had fun with it, it can be more fun the second time through, etc, as you can start to know what to make earlier.

But yes, even myself, who has played through those campaigns SO many times, will still do regular saves, certainly at the start of some missions, as to not have to restart the whole thing when something goes wrong.

Like the Nod flame tank mission/stealth tank mission. GDI commando mission etc.

So I guess, yeah, it's pretty ruff. And yes, the AI not only keeps making stuff, but it also cheats to get more resources, so certainly harder than SC/SCII

  -Liam

Well it was my second playthrough of both games in 19 years.  So perhaps in another 20 years I'll play the campaigns again. 

 

I am definitely going to leave them installed for the multiplayer though.  It's so cool that people are actually interested in these classics!

 

 

[cn2mc]

As far as canon goes, the TD Nod campaign can very well be something that happened before the GDI one, and without breaking any continuity at that. As far as the med. tank-light tank comparison goes... Well, I've only played C&C3 like once and I didn't like it at all, so I don't know how it is there, but the reality in TD is that light tanks suck balls. They are not meant at all to fight pitched battles against medium tanks, because they are not only 'lighter' in damage and armour (and price), they also have a worse ROF, a lower range, and, contrary to popular belief, they are not even faster than med. tanks. So, the light tank is somethig you'd use to get rid of hummers or maybe a guard tower, or to block a bridge, but if you're up against medium tanks you need bikes and turrets/obelisks.

[X3M]

For an accurate comparison, we should ask Nyerguds.

[peterthepigeon]

No, I mean in the NEXT mission. They actually tell you you did it wrong

 

(if you blow up the correct thing in mission 6, you skip straight to mission 8, so you don't get the "you blew up the wrong thing" video either)

Guess I wasn't paying attention. 

 

I already beat the game so it's no biggie.

 

Tib Sun is next!

 

Should've played the demo, it doesn't have garbled transmission so you know you're supposed to blow up the airstrip.

[AchromicWhite]

It's true, light tanks, pretty much, cannot take on medium tanks, you'd want to go for bikes instead. You mainly want light tanks to help soak up warheads that would deal a lot of dmg to light vehicles (flame, high explosive, small arms), so that your lighter vehicles can pump out dmg.

So, in that way, TD is very much different to C&C3. And I suspect very different in other ways, also.

If you'd like to know more about multiplayer, and how the units match up, come online sometime, and you can spectate a few games etc

I'm always happy to help people get started, also.

 

  -Liam

[KILL]

Just finished Core of the Problem, the final GDI Firestorm mission.  To put it simply, it was insane!  I don't know about easy or normal difficulties, but on hard, it was.  It's like every minute you were getting hit by missiles, then artillery showed up, devil's tongue come out of the ground, bombarded by aircraft, mass groups of bikes and cyborgs, etc.

 

What made it even more difficult, it that the missiles and artillery ripped up the ground in my base.  It was pretty much impossible to expand.  I had to build everything so close because of terrain, so there was constant friendly fire, and more missile attacks would take out multiple structures.

 

Once I took out the silo's it was easier.  Thankfully they didn't rebuild those.  The artillery still hurt, but eventually they stopped coming after I wiped out the banshees and a mini NOD base.

 

The ending was just epic, with the giant CABAL cyborg.  I complete forgot about him. I definitely didn't complete it the most efficient way.  I used orca bombers to take out the giant Obelisk, then used a Mk. II to attack the main CABAL building.  Mk. II didn't do much damage and it kept repairing, so I took my bombers and got it to half hp, but the other Obelisk wiped them all out.  I had the CABAL build at 1 block of health and the cyborg was wiping out my entire base.  In the end, I just barely won.

 

Firestorm, while short, is just as good as I remember.  Found the AI better than Tib Sun.  More aggressive for sure.  Though they still don't mass build infantry like Tiberian.

 

 

[Nyerguds]

Just finished Core of the Problem, the final GDI Firestorm mission.  To put it simply, it was insane!

God I love that mission. Using Firestorm wall against the enemy aircraft helps a LOT though.

 

Fun little fact: you don't need to face the Defender at all. Disruptors can shoot through Firestorm wall, and can be used to simply destroy the core inside its "protected" area  XD

 

Heck, you can even do this with Nod if you capture the mobile war factory and the lone tech center standing around somewhere.

[ore_truck]

Just finished Core of the Problem, the final GDI Firestorm mission.  To put it simply, it was insane!

 

Fun little fact: you don't need to face the Defender at all. Disruptors can shoot through Firestorm wall, and can be used to simply destroy the core inside its "protected" area  XD

 

 

 

I used Mammoth mk 2 and shoot the core through the  CABAL's firestorm. I didn't expect that mission can be done just like that without needing to fight the Core Defender. The defender was hard when I played as Nod,he's a real badasss, I destroyed him by blowing a bridge he was standing on(actually my intention was to lure him to the south-eastarn island and destroy the bridge,trapping him there). Yeah, that mission was tough. CABAL's attack was relentless, thankfully the EMP canon helps a lot.

[KILL]

Just finished Core of the Problem, the final GDI Firestorm mission.  To put it simply, it was insane!

 

Fun little fact: you don't need to face the Defender at all. Disruptors can shoot through Firestorm wall, and can be used to simply destroy the core inside its "protected" area  XD

 

 

 

I used Mammoth mk 2 and shoot the core through the  CABAL's firestorm. I didn't expect that mission can be done just like that without needing to fight the Core Defender. The defender was hard when I played as Nod,he's a real badasss, I destroyed him by blowing a bridge he was standing on(actually my intention was to lure him to the south-eastarn island and destroy the bridge,trapping him there). Yeah, that mission was tough. CABAL's attack was relentless, thankfully the EMP canon helps a lot.

Trapping him is genius! 

 

I was more worried about the constant attacks on my base, so I hadn't fully explored the massive map.  I figured the CABAL core was up in the top corner somewhere and was just protected by the firestorm wall and some defenses.  How wrong I was...

 

I'm going to do the NOD missions now and I'll have a different strategy for him when I get there. 

[X3M]

It is actually funny how I beat that map. I simply wiped out every thing, except that cabal robot thing. Then amassed those elites that you can build this mission for the first time. I thought, you need these for that robot. So I took out the 2 obelisks and tha robot starts firing tha lazur. Any way, turns out the elites are only durable . So while they where busy dying, which took ages though. I simply mass bombed that robot with any air unit available.

[cn2mc]

Lure the thing on a bridge and sink it with it. That's the most painless way.

[KILL]

Oh yeah I was going to ask...  How is the mission efficiency calculated in Tib Sun?

 

When I completed the 3rd to last Tib Sun NOD mission a while back (Jake Mcneil), my efficiency was 24%!  I completed it in 4:13, none of my units died, and I was never detected in, or on the way out.

 

I just did the 3rd to last NOD Firestorm mission and I got 170% efficiency.  I ended with 21k credits, but I lost 20 structures and 33 units.

[X3M]

The efficiency in TS is bugged. (In EBfD as well). You can tell by that it doesn't show any logic, like how you described it.

But why even bother? Just look at the time and the number of losses. That is your true score.

[Rampastring]

Oh yeah I was going to ask...  How is the mission efficiency calculated in Tib Sun?

http://www.ppmforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=529381

 

In other words, the mission efficiency is purely dependant on the amount of money that you have at the end of the mission. The more money, the higher your efficiency. If you wanted to, you could just collect hundreds of thousands of credits for the end of a mission and get an efficiency that's in the thousands. It's just broken.

[KILL]

Yeah I figured it was buggy.

 

I just finished NOD 'Core of the Problem,' so I am done with Firestorm.  I would say the beginning of that last mission is on par with any of the difficult missions from Tiberian Dawn.  Once you get the missile silos destroyed, it's easier, but you still have to watch for air attacks which will wreck your construction yard.

 

Now even though it's the same mission, the NOD version is very different.  GDI I was constantly pounded by artillery, but not once when I played as NOD.  When you play NOD, the computer has way more air units and more well defended bases.  They had like 5 mini bases spread across the map with obelisks, juggernauts, banshees, cyborgs, tick tanks, and artillery. The defense for one of the control stations was 15 artillery + bombers!

 

Really enjoyed Tib Sun + Firestorm, but as far as difficulty goes, Tiberian Dawn is harder overall.  Only the last mission of Firestorm with so much going on at the beginning is a challenge.

 

Since I don't have C&C 3 or C&C 4, I'm going to start Red Alert.

[X3M]

At least get your hands on C&C3. It has for me the same atmosphere as TD AND TS in certain area's. And you have much more micro abilities.

[Nyerguds]

Yeah... C&C3's storyline has some low points, but it's a solid game.

 

If only they hadn't added cranes, and then, to stop the inevitable base walking spam, nerfed the build radius of absolutely everything X_x

[X3M]

Cranes do not add to building defences.

Although, they could have had more durability and costs if you ask me. 1500 instead of 3500 is just way to cheap for a fast start.

 

 

Ehm... I still base walk towards what is supposed to be my first expand. While I get a conveyor to my what is supposed to be my second expand. I also go 2 factories plus radar, this is often enough base walking.

 

I think we all agree that TW is the easiest of the series.

In TD, base walking is hardest too. And the MCV is 5000. Way to much for something that dies so fast.

[KILL]

Both C&C 3 and 4 are on Steam, so i'll get them eventually, because I would like to finish the series. 

 

I've read many times that EA ruined the gameplay and ending of C&C 4 which is a damn shame.