Introducing RedAlert++

[Jacko]

Is the overall goal of this to recreate RA in the same way as it currently is now, except as a complete product rather than an old exe with a million hacks patched into it?

 

And yes tib dawn support would be awesome.

[CCHyper]

That reminds me, will this officially support Tiberian Dawn later down the line, or is this strictly Red Alert only?

 

The effort needed to do that would be minuscule, compared to what they need to accomplish to actually recreate RA from nearly scratch, so I guess (and hope) the answer is 'yes'.

 

I have a low priority side project to research and map the changes that appear in C&C95, hopfully adding these features into the new engine so it supports said features from the start.

[LavenderMoon]

Smart plan. I'm looking forward to learning more about the more subtle differences between the two engines.

[SiRaLeX]

Sorry, I wanted to post this earlier but had a very important gym appointment which basically took up the whole evening.

 

 

So, I know this may sound sleazy and all and you may think I'm just a random juice head going all emotional and fanboyant. But I commend CCHyper and OmniBlade for going with C++, the why follows...

 

Everyone can just hack up some random C#.NET, it's much like with PHP. I've seen a lot, I've done my fair share of C#. I don't hate on C#, it has it's place just as PHP does. C#'s domain are business applications, much like with JAVA, not games or any serious application for that matter. Here we go again, deploying C# is a nightmare. Just use .NET 4.5, oops, now good luck deploying that on Windows XP SP3.    Hell, even if said .NET version is available on the users system, you're forcing them to update in order to run your whatever you hacked together. Is that really necessary?

 

Is it really that hard to write C++? Well, yes, it is. It's tremendously hard to learn and master. It takes a hell of a lot of practice and experience to write quality C++ code. Most developers will never be able to write a simple Windows application in C++ because there's sooo many easier ways, namely C#.NET (very inviting) and there we go again. 

 

Throughout my years of professional experience I've come to the honest conclusion that certain people should never be allowed to write code. This is particularly true for those having no idea of very basic computing (not all, but a lot of the people that abuse VB, C#, JAVA, PHP, Python, even JavaScript, and you name it; for every purpose imaginable).

 

 

It has been decided after a lengthy discussion with the OpenRA team that it would be best for us to rename the project, while in its infancy. We would never ask OpenRA to rename their project as it has cemented itself as a project with a great future, and that name is now engraved into the internet.

 

We have decided to go with RedAlert++, I will be updating the topics and website shortly.

This again shows true size and deserves utmost respect.

 

[LavenderMoon]

Everyone can just hack up some random C#.NET, it's much like with PHP. I've seen a lot, I've done my fair share of C#. I don't hate on C#, it has it's place just as PHP does. C#'s domain are business applications, much like with JAVA, not games or any serious application for that matter. Here we go again, deploying C# is a nightmare. Just use .NET 4.5, oops, now good luck deploying that on Windows XP SP3. Hell, even if said .NET version is available on the users system, you're forcing them to update in order to run your whatever you hacked together. Is that really necessary?

 

Is it really that hard to write C++? Well, yes, it is. It's tremendously hard to learn and master. It takes a hell of a lot of practice and experience to write quality C++ code. Most developers will never be able to write a simple Windows application in C++ because there's sooo many easier ways, namely C#.NET (very inviting) and there we go again.

 

Throughout my years of professional experience I've come to the honest conclusion that certain people should never be allowed to write code. This is particularly true for those having no idea of very basic computing (not all, but a lot of the people that abuse VB, C#, JAVA, PHP, Python, even JavaScript, and you name it; for every purpose imaginable).

I'm sorry you feel that way.

[CCHyper]

SiRaLeX, as much as I appricate you commendation towards us, I feel it is a topic best suited under its own subject. I would like to keep this topic mostly focused on the project itself. But thankyou for your input

[SiRaLeX]

I understand and fully respect that! 

 

 

So, assuming you had an exhaustive/complete understanding of RAs p2p protocol, wouldn't that be a large step in virtually being able to make RedAlert++ compatible with the original RA?! Or would you actually prefer to implement a more robust p2p protocol because certainly many assumptions the original code made may meanwhile be outdated and many design choices not really kosher? 

 

[Tore]

looks cool, but will any new features be added, like high resolution, build queues, being able to add to your selection of units holding down shift and box selecting? Being able to choose starting locations on skirmish maps, and having the AI be on your team? I've kinda become addicted to Dawn of the Tiberian Age.

 

In the mean time RA on CnCNet allows most of that. Save for build queues and shift box selecting.

[FunkyFr3sh]

looks cool, but will any new features be added, like high resolution, build queues, being able to add to your selection of units holding down shift and box selecting? Being able to choose starting locations on skirmish maps, and having the AI be on your team? I've kinda become addicted to Dawn of the Tiberian Age.

 

If they would add build queues and such things that change the gameplay dramatically then there would be no reason to even work on the project, you could just play openRA instead

[fir3w0rx]

In the mean time RA on CnCNet allows most of that. Save for build queues and shift box selecting.

Build queues and shift box selecting should be added to CnCNet's version of Red Alert so that I can keep up with the P4 Gold Medal pros and all their hotkeying

[Blade]

Regarding compatibility with the older clients, even if we largely reuse the same protocol we will likely want to force people off the old client to fix bugs such as the grouped unit speed and such which Westwood didn't do because they wanted to continue to support older clients. It also gives us the freedom to alter the protocol for other reasons should the need arise. All this is a bit down the road for now though, lets get scenario loading and game logic and drawing down first.

[Nyerguds]

Throughout my years of professional experience I've come to the honest conclusion that certain people should never be allowed to write code. This is particularly true for those having no idea of very basic computing (not all, but a lot of the people that abuse VB, C#, JAVA, PHP, Python, even JavaScript, and you name it; for every purpose imaginable).

Hello! My name is Nyerguds, and I know Pascal, PHP, Javascript, C#, Java, and x86 Assembler

[Guest ehy]

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[pichorra]

In the mean time RA on CnCNet allows most of that. Save for build queues and shift box selecting.

Build queues and shift box selecting should be added to CnCNet's version of Red Alert so that I can keep up with the P4 Gold Medal pros and all their hotkeying

 

Won't it be a reimplementation of the vanilla game? That would mean no add-ons on gameplay.

Actually I would be sad if there are any changes that makes the game feels different from it's original.

 

---

About that language wars: Usually those people learned Programming through Go Horse experience

[SiRaLeX]

Hey RedAlert++ team, have you looked into zzattacks maps renderer? It's basically a console application that renders RA2 maps from the game directory.

There's a C++ version that might eventually be helpful for RA too: https://code.google.com/p/ccmaps/source/browse/#svn%2Ftrunk%2Fsrc%2FCNC%20Map%20Renderer

 

I know Pascal, [...] and x86 Assembler

Well, at least something, right? Use it wisely! 

 

Agreed with C# being an eXtreme Go Horse.

[CCHyper]

In the mean time RA on CnCNet allows most of that. Save for build queues and shift box selecting.

Build queues and shift box selecting should be added to CnCNet's version of Red Alert so that I can keep up with the P4 Gold Medal pros and all their hotkeying

 

Won't it be a reimplementation of the vanilla game? That would mean no add-ons on gameplay.

Actually I would be sad if there are any changes that makes the game feels different from it's original.

 

There will be slight things we will have to abide by, but we hope that the collective communites can help us trace anything that feels off

 

 

Hey RedAlert++ team, have you looked into zzattacks maps renderer? It's basically a console application that renders RA2 maps from the game directory.

There's a C++ version that might eventually be helpful for RA too: https://code.google.com/p/ccmaps/source/browse/#svn%2Ftrunk%2Fsrc%2FCNC%20Map%20Renderer

 

We are aware of the rendering tool zzattack released, but we are already well under way with our own. We will not be using any 3rd party tools as a base for any feature of the engine.

[SiRaLeX]

Do you plan on using higher resolution textures and nicer Voxels/SHPs? I could imagine a visually more appealing UI would have better chances to get popular. Although that would require new artwork be done but compared to the programming work it should be laughable or will you reuse the original graphics resources?

 

I know next to nothing about SHPs, BTW, other than what I needed to know to create a reshroudable foghack for RA2/YR.  :laugh:

 

[Allen262]

looks cool, but will any new features be added, like high resolution, build queues, being able to add to your selection of units holding down shift and box selecting? Being able to choose starting locations on skirmish maps, and having the AI be on your team? I've kinda become addicted to Dawn of the Tiberian Age.

 

If they would add build queues and such things that change the gameplay dramatically then there would be no reason to even work on the project, you could just play openRA instead

 

Build queues would be nice. I do wish I had them for some of the single player missions. As for the "play openRA instead", nope. I want to mod something that uses or is close to the same language as RA1/TS/RA2 rules.ini and the TS/RA2 arti.ini and/or ai.ini if needed. I'm not going to learn a new language for just one or two new things that openRA can give.

[LavenderMoon]

My number one feature request would be right-click scrolling, like in TS and RA2. That's actually one of my biggest gripes with TD/RA1 (even more than lack of build queues) and with OpenRA's left-click orders mode. Another feature I'd like would be the replay missions feature from C&C64, where you could select any variant of any mission you'd completed (or unlocked?), making it useful for quickly booting up a mission or seeing the differences between variants. Of course, that mission where it loads your old base from another mission would throw a wrench into the works. How does that mission work if you somehow skip straight to it, anyway?

[Allen262]

Right-click scrolling not bad but not something I miss when playing as I'm singleplayer person and most missions don't get to the full Mega Map 128x128. Replay missions feature also not bad but using a auto save like RA2 dose at the start of a new mission during campaigns may work just fine.

 

The saving of unit and buldings from Allied 2 to Allied 4 is done by something but what I do not know. I'm sure CCHyper will have somthing worked out for it.

[Blade]

Its a bit early in development to be taking feature requests, but things like build queues do change the dynamics of the game, particularly for competition. If such features are ever implemented they will be optional behaviours to enable and certainly not default.

[Jacko]

Of course, that mission where it loads your old base from another mission would throw a wrench into the works. How does that mission work if you somehow skip straight to it, anyway?

 

In the PS1 version, from allied missions 2 to 4 they just gave you a new default plain base (that had sod-all in it)

[CCHyper]

Right-click scrolling not bad but not something I miss when playing as I'm singleplayer person and most missions don't get to the full Mega Map 128x128. Replay missions feature also not bad but using a auto save like RA2 dose at the start of a new mission during campaigns may work just fine.

 

The saving of unit and buldings from Allied 2 to Allied 4 is done by something but what I do not know. I'm sure CCHyper will have somthing worked out for it.

 

Red Alert has whats called a "Carryover" logic, it saves the the houses objects with the strength and location on the map so they can be replaced in the next scenario.

[tomsons26]

Do you plan on using higher resolution textures and nicer Voxels/SHPs?

RA has no voxels, voxels were introduced in Tiberian Sun.

 

SHP's are sprites which use palettes for colors, every pixel has a index applied which corresponds to a index in the palette.

Its not exactly that simple as in new games where you can open the game archives and swap out textures with better res ones you made.

You need to apply the right palettes, make sure the colors you intend to be remap colors use the proper palette indexes and there are limitations that need to be obeyed as well.

 

Do you plan on using higher resolution textures and nicer Voxels/SHPs? I could imagine a visually more appealing UI would have better chances to get popular.

In artistic look/style aspect the desktop UI won't change, other UI's, if there will be any, really likely will be kept in the same artistic look/style as the originals. This isn't OpenRA 

Could be possibly likely probably might get a 32-bit/or at least unique palette for UI upgrade but shush..

 

compared to the programming work it should be laughable

XD Oh nononoo,its the exact opposite

 

I know next to nothing about SHPs, BTW, other than what I needed to know to create a reshroudable foghack for RA2/YR.  :laugh:

Now why would you make that 

On CnCNet verison of YR we changed a lot of the shroud code and made it so that it can't really easily be messed with.

Just don't take it as a challenge. Leave the CnCNet version alone :puppydog:

 

But have fun haxing XWIS if you figure out how to gain access, since they could never be assed to fix game bugs or exploits (and rather ban people trying to track down and fix exploits :/ )

:ivan:

[LavenderMoon]

Its a bit early in development to be taking feature requests

We're more trying to take the pulse of the project's goals.