JMaN2005 Posted November 13, 2015 Author Share Posted November 13, 2015 Thank you funky. Yeah I'm not banned anymore. I don't know that a point limit is the way to go though. Because now IF the top 2 ranked players ever get to be decent players that don't dodge everyone, I wouldn't be able to play vs them because i started ladder late. Im just logging on to try it so we will see how it goes though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humble Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 One ladder for WW maps and one ladder for Mod maps. That keeps both sides of the TS community happy, it is also much easier to manage and save's having to create a list of sanctioned mod maps that do not contain game modifications i.e. speed. Newb bashing is a problem but at the moment there arent enough players competing in the ladder to ensure that newb bashing doesn't pay. The more players start to play competitively, the more points the better players will be able to accumulate from playing the players around them which will outweigh the 250 games, 100% win ratio at 1 point each. Perhaps a way to remove the bias towards newb bashing is to make the number of points lost for playing someone around your rank less and simply award the winner more. Also, is there currently a time limit on tournie games, i.e. game only gets recorded / a win or loss is awarded if it lasts over a certain time? In the WW days this was 3 mins to allow you to quit if the game was horribly laggy and to put off people giving masses of free wins (would take a lot of time to amass lots of wins at 1 point per win every 3 mins). Epic post. Agreed. My solution would also stop this problem you did mention, kapa could only play kaizen a few times and then his ranking would be too high and would not be allowed to play against him anymore Don't know about your ban, I thought Rosssi removed it already the other day? Going to check it now That should be with some conditions though. I wouldn't want to fully prevent players from playing one another, thats a good example of killing the ladder. We shouldn't fully restrict someone from playing vs another player because their ranking is too high, ELO sorts that out anyway by only awarding 1 or 2 points? If it doesn't then let them play, but only award a few points. I don't think there should be a win limit that restricts you from playing or counting, the ladder isn't big enough. Though maybe after X wins the point calculation should alter slightly so its not so beneficial winning against the same person over and over in the same day. Agreed Thank you funky. Yeah I'm not banned anymore. I don't know that a point limit is the way to go though. Because now IF the top 2 ranked players ever get to be decent players that don't dodge everyone, I wouldn't be able to play vs them because i started ladder late. Im just logging on to try it so we will see how it goes though. I believe they accounted for this by defaulted everyone with points until they loose them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c0rpsmakr Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Randomly selecting players to play eachother is the only fair way to do this, which is what wuss suggested a while ago. When I do come on to play, I get less than a handful of people willing to vs me, and i know its a problem for several others. 3 matches a day for players to vs eachother is fine in my opinion PS: Thank you cncnet for providing a ladder and working to maintain/improve it, it's very much appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chill Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 low ranking players should be worth the most points & vise versa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHANIVORE Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 ok let me make something clear. as it seems nearly nobody but me, and humble and possibly jman have a brain here. ts has virtually 1/100th of the players it once did. u make QM an only option for tournament, me, ollie and im sure other top players will just stop playing it. as i come on to just versus the best, because thats whats enjoyable. i will have to wait forever for a QM game if thats the only choice i guarantee it, and 99% of the time end up playing somebody unenjoyable and eventually quit the game. c0rps will get that too eventually. all u need to do, is what funkyfresh has started and just set a point difference for who u can play. this almost all wouldnt be a problem at all if mods vanished from the ladder, and the staff here listened or noticed who is free winning ie: kaizen, sexpro. kaizen is playing a mod map dodging anyone decent, and sexpro free win vs himself on another pc. ill be damned to login and ts to have any fun to QM and 99% of the time be paired against some noob i dont even want to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHANIVORE Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 u got me, and jman commenting who are active. then for some reason c0rps who has played a grand total of 3 ladder games saying he votes for a QM. take a poll among the most active players and tehy wont vote for a QM option as an only option. i dont mind QM as AN option, along side choosing who u play, but as an only option i guarantee your ladder dies. the good players will not want to play noobs 99% of the time, and the noobs will be afraid to play QM because they may lose. this isnt a game that has 100000 players like it used to. i went through this bs with xwis, and almost everytime was proven right about what i suggested i play the ladder at a high level more than most anyone for past 10 yrs. QM is an option but should not be be the only option. with the limited amount of activity though compared to past years, nobody will like QM. you just need to add incentive to the ladder, even as much as a stupid trophy icon next to your name, and make it so players like kaizen cant mass 1v1 idiots 1000 pts below him and dodge higher players, as well as stop free wins by people like sex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KHANIVORE Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 I HIGHLY SUGGEST ADDING SOMEONE TO YOUR STAFF FOR TIBERIAN SUN ONLY. SOMEONE WHO PLAYS IT. I SUGGEST HUMBLE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humble Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 I agree that Quickmatch would be an awesome option, but if it is the only option will kill the ladder. @Trz: That would mean I would have to act a bit more mature around here, hehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chill Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 sounds like this trz guy who ever that is should make a new ts thing n hire humble Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
en3rgy52 Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 Quick match is fantastic if there are enough players to be able to make good matches. However, I think we may be kidding ourselves if we think there will be enough to players to make a quick match system work a la star craft etc. This may be a somewhat far out suggestion but what about making people anonymous to each other in tournie games (until after the game). You could have a sort of general rank that corresponds with your position in the ladder, say General for the top x of players, then colonel for the next x and perhaps private for low ranked players etc etc. By being anonymous it makes dodging less likely to happen but by having ranks you know you are playing players around you or above your rank etc. You could also then set a filter to stop generals playing privates etc to stop newb bashing or set a limit as to how many times a general ranked player plays a private ranked player. Just food for thought, perhaps we can have a discussion rather than an argument about such things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMaN2005 Posted November 14, 2015 Author Share Posted November 14, 2015 I HIGHLY SUGGEST ADDING SOMEONE TO YOUR STAFF FOR TIBERIAN SUN ONLY. SOMEONE WHO PLAYS IT. I SUGGEST HUMBLE. I second that. Humble stays active trying to get people in. We need an admin familiar and comfortable with the TS community. And he's one of the few that is cool with modders and WWers alike. Give it a thought admins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tahj Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 I HIGHLY SUGGEST ADDING SOMEONE TO YOUR STAFF FOR TIBERIAN SUN ONLY. SOMEONE WHO PLAYS IT. I SUGGEST HUMBLE. I'm a fan of Humble; this isn't ST though. Anyone that wants to help out, can. Join myself and the CnCNet developers on [irc.freenode.net #cncnet](https://kiwiirc.com/client/irc.freenode.net/cncnet/) this almost all wouldnt be a problem at all if mods vanished from the ladder I'm not sure that mods are the problem here. Newb bashers exist whether there's WW or Mod maps on the ladder. I do agree however that we should try to figure out something to prevent newb bashers deliberately avoiding top players. Perhaps a way to remove the bias towards newb bashing is to make the number of points lost for playing someone around your rank less and simply award the winner more. Also, is there currently a time limit on tournie games, i.e. game only gets recorded / a win or loss is awarded if it lasts over a certain time? In the WW days this was 3 mins to allow you to quit if the game was horribly laggy and to put off people giving masses of free wins (would take a lot of time to amass lots of wins at 1 point per win every 3 mins). That suggestion is practically the opposite of ELO (which rewards players for playing against those around their rank). And yes, there is a time limit required for games to count Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMaN2005 Posted November 14, 2015 Author Share Posted November 14, 2015 i dont think that newbashing is a problem that can be fixed. It's going to happen. There's not enough upper tier players left for it to not. the issue is the newbs dodging their way to #1 spots or like sexpro getting to top 5 by playing himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostDog Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 ELO or ELO-like ranking system is probably the only feasible way for a ladder. It should resolve the issues that were brought up in this thread. Even if it will take long time to implement, it will be worth for the long run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tahj Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 ELO or ELO-like ranking system is probably the only feasible way for a ladder. It should resolve the issues that were brought up in this thread. Even if it will take long time to implement, it will be worth for the long run. The ladder uses Elo ranking... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powerush Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 I believe I know the correct answer for this guys. Where do we talk about this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humble Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 @Powerush: Just post your thoughts and worse case one of the admins can move the post to the proper area. I imagine this is the correct location for what you want to discuss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spawn2k Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 Firstly Jman don't mention that you have beaten me my login is spawn2k or Davo on the ladder. And from what I remember u refused to play me 1on1 and left my lobby when you realised it was me. The other logins were sexpro gaining points to remove kaiZen from the number 1 spot. The ladders cool but I can't wait for the clan ladder . Be so much fun to create strategys although I can't see there being much activity in it with cretins like Jman and corps thinking they rule the roost. A homo and African having their say just shows the world we live in now Bait deployed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phenomena Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 So I havent been on ts in weeks...finally got some time to catch up heres how you fix this...it isnt easy, but itll fix all of your problems Make ranked 1v1 matches via quickmatch ONLY you eliminate 1 map wonders, you play maps from a pool (perhaps have some mods in there to make everyone happy, agreed upon mods) you eliminate dodging/newb bashing No clue how itll work coding wise, or if its even possible But quickmatch is 100% better than this current older system sc2 had it right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phenomena Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 addition- I totally understand where trz and others are coming from in terms of mod maps...however, we have a limited player base, the ladder should involve all players (as well as all skill types/map preferences) again...a map pool that features mostly ww maps, with a few mod maps, agreed upon by the community, in a quickmatch/random format, which also takes into account players points when matching opponents. Have something in the lobby showing how many players are in que for a quickmatch. This isnt 2004, despite what trz/jman or even myself might want to believe, you cant just cut the community in half again. Force everyone to play whoever gets matched against them. The top players will prevail regardless, this time, without the frustration of never getting any games vs certain players (sexpro/kaizen) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaZiReLaN Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 upload bettzeugs player cards , assign bounty points in relation to skill , gain 100 points for killing DaZiRelan and 3 for Kaizen gg no re Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punkernfg Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 Remove all 'for fun game' and have every single game you play ranked. You can have a 1v1 rank and a 2v2+ rank. Everything quick match. Done, problem solved No more newb bashing and everyone will become desensitized to losing and not disconnect/recon There's not enough people to do quick match, you say? There's not enough people to play TS right now anyway, and most of us sit in our lobbies until we go AFK. So let's at least go in the right direction with this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amokk Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 remove all "for fun games" XD we are playing for fun I play all day, for fun! With those I want to, not forced to play with those I don't land of milk and honey here, now for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punkernfg Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 remove all "for fun games" XD we are playing for fun you sit in your lobby till you're afk because no one wants to play with you. I play all day, for fun! With those I want to, not forced to play with those I don't land of milk and honey here, now for us, not you. Ideally, you could still play with who you want by creating a 'party' and quick matching with them. This isn't a new idea, many games do this. As for no one wanting to play with me, I'm not sure where the negativity came from. Just suggesting simple ways to grow the community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amokk Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 Fair enough I retract that part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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