HJK6 crap has to go

[AchromicWhite]

Honestly, the original was bad, but the new version where you start with another con yard in your base and a comm centre is just a butchering of not only the ability for people to play multiple styles, as you simply cannot move out with anything other than mammoth sized armies or light vehicles, but also a butchering of build orders and early macro. It also means that people can gain extra con yards and do mass defence structure strategies as offensive builds. Someone which is possible in RA1, but not in C&C95.

There, I said it, I'm sticking with it and I hate it. Not only on a game play level where I am actually in there on the map, but also from a 'game love' perspective where I see so much potential for this game be flushed away. I also feel it shits on the original creators of the game, as they clearly intended extra structures to be for single player maps.

I never would have played this game for as long as I have if the strategies were that limited. I think it's damaging to the game play and eventually the community. I know it's popular, but it's popular because it gives you everything you think you want. However, starting with everything you want in an RTS only destroys the pacing of the game. I've said before; what makes each team in C&C95 interesting is not what they CAN do, but what they CAN'T do. It's this "can't do" which allows new strategies to be formed, as people start to pick apart builds and control to find the weakness of their opponent, and gain advantage.
If you start with all the money you need, the ability to make everything, and the ability to make it all really fast, and tiberium all over the battlefield, then you lose:
-Team advantages/disadvantages
-Pacing of the early/mid/late game
-Unit compositions/counters builds

If you want a game about speed and less strategy, go play RA1. And that IS a thing. Someone people want that. But having our new players learning on this map, SUCKS.

I will not swear about it; brace yourselves.

Fuck HJK6 and all it's limiting bullshit.

[AchromicWhite]

Oh, and the masses of tib messes with the low IQ of harvester drivers

[Nyerguds]

5 minutes ago, chem said:

this is a democracy not a dictatorship

lol, since when? 

[Nyerguds]

That said, Crappy Mappy Syndrome is cancer and should stay away from my C&C1 

[AchromicWhite]

Oh, I'm more than aware that I can't change this crap. And no, it's not a democracy, nor is it a dictatorship, or ANY government type. It's a bunch of people playing a game.

It's my bitch post and I stick to what I say.

It's shame we don't have a way to properly promote decent maps and share basic strategy information.  It's this thought that makes me dream of a community ladder... but then I remember that C&C has cheeses for days. I would still like to see the start cash limited to 10,000 or 9999 as WW capped it at.
I mean, the reason that 9999 became the norm was for the same reason that HJK6 is popular. It's like "of course we just want to play with the most $$$, why wouldn't we?".
The answer to why we MIGHT not want to can be found above.

However, it was still capped low enough, and it actually allows for different economic openings; which set the pacing for your economy for a significant amount of the game. So it actually is enough to create more diversity. It does, however, allow for some silly cheeses, like heli-rush and 2xstrip/WF all-in.

With 99999999999999 start credits, the game outright breaks. Which leads to people looking for other solutions. Many newbies play on tech 6 so that flyers aren't in the game. In other words, because they didn't understand the econ (as I wouldn't expect them to), they blame the flyers. This means that they don't get to experience the downside to rushing flyers (running out of money), and learning to counter that.
In other words, they just lose out on experiencing more of what the game has to offer.

And I want to be clear. If I'D have had the option to do this earlier in my history of playing this game, I would have. And I probably would have looked to make the same solutions as these people. But as the people who understand the game, I feel that we have more of a responsibility to cradle what we KNOW makes this game better, and put to rest what damages it.

Maybe we could create a 'competitive mode', which instantly selects the common start settings:
Tech 7
$10,000
Tiberium on
Bases on
Crates off
Separate Helipads off
Capture the flag off
MCV undeploy off
And then work together as a community to select a bunch of maps that focus on the possibilities of the game.

At least that's send a message to people that this game has something to offer that the newer plays don't yet understand, while not attacking what they already have.

Look at me. Turning my whine post into something constructive.

Edited April 26, 2017 by AchromicWhite

[AchromicWhite]

Yes, I'm well aware. Don't take me original post too seriously. The map is crap, and it bugs the crap outta me. Obviously, that's pretty annoying when I'm trying to play the game.
But it also bugs me that people don't get to experience this game the way that I got to.

That's all it's saying, in seriousness. The rest is just a bitch fest. I laughed a lot while I wrote it.

[AchromicWhite]

At least PinWheel got some popularity. But even that's a map that I could have made better.

Yeah. I've often wanted to test maps before releasing them, but there's no space to do that, as the system copies them to everyone else's computer automatically. There's no publishing, the system just does it all.

As a mapper, this is actually frustrating. It also means that people can easily copy your map, edit it, and redistribute it. Heck, just editing it means that the redistributing happens automatically. Which is always a slap in the face to any sort or artist; modder, mapper, whatever.

[Nyerguds]

1 hour ago, chem said:

The original HJK is not crap?

Well, okay, it has correct terrain, I'll give it that. But those square gem fields, man...

[AchromicWhite]

1 minute ago, Nyerguds said:

Well, okay, it has correct terrain, I'll give it that. But those square gem fields, man...

Yeah. It is 'correct' from an art standpoint. It's the design where it kinda falls flat, both artistically and for game play.

[nariac]

I'm morbidly curious to see what this infamous HJK6 map looks like.

Maybe I'll learn why my multiplayer maps are so unpopular.

[AchromicWhite]

54 minutes ago, chem said:

iTS LIKE A 6 PACK OF BEER COMBINED WITH A WOMANS BRAZILIAN STRIP, AS YOU CAN IMAGINE ITS VERY MUCH FUN, BUT NOT INTELLIGENT

Depends on what you want from the game. The last time I played, someone got an engi into one of my structures. Not the biggest deal... except they had 2 cons so they just started spamming AGTs in my base. I just left.
Not because I couldn't deal with it, but because I don't want to play a game like that. It just isn't C&C to me, it feels more like a mod of some sort, where the maker didn't understand what they were doing.
Would I want to play a poorly thought out mod, or C&C95? Well, if I joined a C&C95 game, that probably answers the question.

 

1 hour ago, nariac said:

I'm morbidly curious to see what this infamous HJK6 map looks like.

Maybe I'll learn why my multiplayer maps are so unpopular.

Honestly, it's hard to make GOOD popular maps. What makes makes balanced and competitive is not what most people consider fun. I guess it depends on what you want to accomplish with your maps.
For me, I pretty much make things that I'd find fun to play. People can figure out the rest for themselves. I mean, I do have a youtube channel with a bunch of games that explain how to play the game, but even that isn't popular enough to get people to really learn... and in turn appreciate my maps for what they are designed to do.

[fir3w0rx]

Is this one of those 1000 apm maps? I still can't do that frikkin gold challenge one

[ore_truck]

Agree with White, I thought I'm the only one that hates that map because of the reasons stated...

[AchromicWhite]

12 hours ago, fir3w0rx said:

Is this one of those 1000 apm maps? I still can't do that frikkin gold challenge one

No, it's a load of Tiberium everywhere, bases in little boxes, free tech to capture. 

9 hours ago, ore_truck said:

Agree with White, I thought I'm the only one that hates that map because of the reasons stated...

Nah, man, there's a bunch of us. Have we played? I feel like we need to gave a game

[AchromicWhite]

Yes, I heli rush when people start with lots of cash. And if they lower the tech I just play all in. With a LOT of barracks as well.

[Myg]

There is a meta culture that exists to provide these kind of maps with life.  These kind of maps exist for every game. They present a more abstract experience than maps made by the original designers. That abstractness is what attracts people, its akin to modern art.

I personally think they do little good service to a game other then to reveal the decline of the game itself, needing these kind of maps to keep it alive.

C&C95 needs a boost of life and new blood instead of arguements.

 

 

[ore_truck]

HJK gives a different style of play. Can be fun once in a while but nothing beats playing on decent maps without tiberium covering the entire map. The problem is noobs only want money maps (last I check, at least).

[X3M]

Ever occurred to you that you can say no, and simply press the leave button?

If noobs want to play money maps, let them.

I tell them, I find these maps boring. Even though I play on them on a regular basis my self if I really have no patience. A buggy or apache rush fixes most games for me any way

And if they complain about that, I tell them to host a map where I need to search for them instead.

[rabidsnypr]

On 4/26/2017 at 7:00 AM, AchromicWhite said:

Honestly, the original was bad, but the new version where you start with another con yard in your base and a comm centre is just a butchering of not only the ability for people to play multiple styles, as you simply cannot move out with anything other than mammoth sized armies or light vehicles, but also a butchering of build orders and early macro. It also means that people can gain extra con yards and do mass defence structure strategies as offensive builds. Someone which is possible in RA1, but not in C&C95.

There, I said it, I'm sticking with it and I hate it. Not only on a game play level where I am actually in there on the map, but also from a 'game love' perspective where I see so much potential for this game be flushed away. I also feel it shits on the original creators of the game, as they clearly intended extra structures to be for single player maps.

I never would have played this game for as long as I have if the strategies were that limited. I think it's damaging to the game play and eventually the community. I know it's popular, but it's popular because it gives you everything you think you want. However, starting with everything you want in an RTS only destroys the pacing of the game. I've said before; what makes each team in C&C95 interesting is not what they CAN do, but what they CAN'T do. It's this "can't do" which allows new strategies to be formed, as people start to pick apart builds and control to find the weakness of their opponent, and gain advantage.
If you start with all the money you need, the ability to make everything, and the ability to make it all really fast, and tiberium all over the battlefield, then you lose:
-Team advantages/disadvantages
-Pacing of the early/mid/late game
-Unit compositions/counters builds

If you want a game about speed and less strategy, go play RA1. And that IS a thing. Someone people want that. But having our new players learning on this map, SUCKS.

I will not swear about it; brace yourselves.

Fuck HJK6 and all it's limiting bullshit.

 

 

stop crying and make your own maps. just saying.

[ore_truck]

1 hour ago, rabidsnypr said:

 

 

stop crying and make your own maps. just saying.

stop crying and post a more constructive argument, just saying