Unanimous Change

[Plokite_Wolf]

8 minutes ago, FReQuEnZy said:

IMO Yuri's first cause for being overpowered is their power plant efficiency.
They can easily get a power plant equivalent of a nuclear power plant by inserting infantry, which enables them to tech quicker than other factions.

They are all the more vulnerable the more you rely on fewer Bio Reactors with infantry rather than more empty ones. It's therefore much easier to cut a Yuri player's power, especially with aircraft and artillery.

 

[XXxPrePxX]

Just now, Plokite_Wolf said:

They are all the more vulnerable the more you rely on fewer Bio Reactors with infantry rather than more empty ones. It's therefore much easier to cut a Yuri player's power, especially with aircraft and artillery.

 

Come on man, who uses aircraft against yuri's aint-air? I believe there is a skill tier difference between the players posting and you here.

[Lud0wig]

The balance of the game is limited to what's already available, editing a few lines in rulesmd/artmd won't balance the game when there's a problem with the game itself, which is a hell to patch

3 minutes ago, XXxPrePxX said:

Come on man, who uses aircraft against yuri's aint-air? I believe there is a skill tier difference between the players posting and you here.

We can use tanks ^^

[Plokite_Wolf]

11 minutes ago, XXxPrePxX said:

Come on man, who uses aircraft against yuri's aint-air?

People who can pull off a sneaky back-door attack

[XXxPrePxX]

Plok out of respect to you, I will detail why I claim that you are a much lesser skilled player (and thus, are wrong) based on your posts:

1. You stated "I find the Genetic Mutator the single useless superweapon in the entire game."
This is clearly false by any pro players account. It is such an astoundingly bad statement, that I question whether you have ever competed against a proper yuri player. We have described why the mutator is so deadly in a balanced game in this thread (i.e. it's puts a time limit on the opponents chances to win, because it gives yuri free money endlessly, while sovs/allies have to fight over any last ore). To this you respond:

 

2. " and is desperate to get money that way, and even got the opportunity to build a superweapon, that means you're not harassing well and/or often enough, and no rebalancing of the Genetic Mutator will change that. "
First, it's not about being desperate for the yuri player. It's about getting a free $20,000 instantly.. enough to produce UFO's on 4-5 war factories ensuring an easy win. Next, the fact that you question the opportunity of building a superweapon once again showcases your inexperience against yuri. Almost all games against yuri strictly require superweapons. So much so, that this has been standard operating procedure since the beginning of the game.
Third, the comment that one is not 'harassing well' enough is just a bad argument. Assume that the two players are equal. You can't just use this argument. I can say, well the IC is overpowered and you can respond "just harass harder." It makes no sense to the argument.

 

3. "They are all the more vulnerable the more you rely on fewer Bio Reactors with infantry rather than more empty ones. It's therefore much easier to cut a Yuri player's power, especially with aircraft and artillery. "

First, you are right in that it is a weakness to put all your eggs in one basket as yuri does. However, the bio reactors as Frequenzy stated give yuri a great advantage early on. But the pros/cons of bio reactors aren't interesting here, what is interesting is your solution:
You suggest to use aircraft against yuri which is a suicide mission. Yuri's gats will mow down any harrier/rocketeer that comes close. And any competitive game would simply not allow that to happen. Once again, showcasing your inexperience against the yuri faction.

 

So, in each reply, you've replied with a comment that really shows you haven't played in competitive battles against a good yuri player. Therefore, you really have no idea what the power of the mutator is, since the problem with the mutator exists most noticeably in games with pro-level play. I can see how you would consider the mutator useless if you are playing low-tier play. I can see how you might use aircraft vs. yuri against a player who isn't good enough to see the air craft and respond quickly.

Edited January 26, 2018 by XXxPrePxX

[[CC] RaVaGe]

15 minutes ago, XXxPrePxX said:

Come on man, who uses aircraft against yuri's aint-air? I believe there is a skill tier difference between the players posting and you here.

Let's not turn it into a discussion about who has the longer e-penis here...

 

4 minutes ago, Plokite_Wolf said:

People who can pull off a sneaky back-door attack

Unfortunately, there are not that many good Yuri side players in the game so you quite possibly haven't seen how fast Yuri downs air units with just 2 gattling tanks or even cannons.
While it's simple to pull off air attacks against people who don't put gattling tank bunkers in key spots around their base, against people who do, you would lose most of your air units.

[XXxPrePxX]

1 minute ago, FReQuEnZy said:

Let's not turn it into a discussion about who has the longer e-penis here...

 

Unfortunately, there are not that many good Yuri side players in the game so you quite possibly haven't seen how fast Yuri downs air units with just 2 gattling tanks or even cannons.
While it's simple to pull off air attacks against people who don't put gattling tank bunkers in key spots around their base, against people who do, you would lose most of your air units.

 

Not trying to be egotistical, it's fruitless to discuss the imbalances with someone who hasn't experienced them due to different skill levels. That's my point that i'm trying to respectfully get over to plokite.

Edited January 26, 2018 by XXxPrePxX

[[CC] RaVaGe]

Should have gone with the description option before 5 different people started telling him that he doesn't know which was obvious enough in his posts, calling a fool stupid won't educate him. 

[XXxPrePxX]

1 minute ago, FReQuEnZy said:

Should have gone with the description option before 5 different people started telling him that he doesn't know which was obvious enough in his posts, calling a fool stupid won't educate him. 

I only see 1 post by Heldro here suggesting that plok doesn't know what he's talking about, to which plok responded that he's been playing since 2001.

That's when I picked it up and did describe things, but first I was unaware of his skill level.

I see nothing wrong with the communication.

[Plokite_Wolf]

@XXxPrePxX - you got me.

 

As for Gattling Tanks/Cannons, I am, of course, aware of their exact power, but what I meant by my aircraft "solution" were the situations when you can catch your opponent without proper AA defenses in the moment you're trying to micro your aircraft to the Bio Reactor. Unless the opponent expects such an attack from you, he won't be building AA there. Sure, that's less plausible on smaller maps where players are in the very corners of the battlefield, but more open maps and islands do allow some breathing room for Harriers.

[[CC] RaVaGe]

While that may be true but you're thinking in terms of Soviet/Allied, most decent Yuri players put gattling tank bunkers around their base so it's generally surrounded by AA.

Also, the cost of losing even 1 harrier is greater than hitting that one reactor, except in unique circumstances.

Harrier $1200
Bio Reactor $600

Edited January 26, 2018 by FReQuEnZy

[FlyingMustache]

I'd be willing to show Plok the power of the mutator. He'll change his mind after a few battles vs me.

Btw, balancing the mutator isn't impossible. Just simply reduce the sell price of the brute. (Soylent) If you don't want the regular brute affected, there's another way as well. I played with it a while back and created a second brute called "BruteM." This brute is identical to the normal brute, except the soylent value is lower. I just make it so the mutator creates "BruteM" instead of normal brutes.

[Gun_Man]

2 hours ago, Plokite_Wolf said:

They are all the more vulnerable the more you rely on fewer Bio Reactors with infantry rather than more empty ones. It's therefore much easier to cut a Yuri player's power, especially with aircraft and artillery.

I think you just need to stop commenting here.  Every post you've made shows you have no clue about how competitive play goes.

[Plokite_Wolf]

6 minutes ago, Gun_Man said:

I think you just need to stop commenting here.  Every post you've made shows you have no clue about how competitive play goes.

I think you should've found a better statement to quote, which even XXxPrePxX (yo, can I call you just PreP?) validated except for the "aircraft" bit. Unless you have an idea on why putting all eggs in one basket is in any way a good idea, especially in YR?

I also think you need to cut down the elitism.

[Lud0wig]

30 minutes ago, Plokite_Wolf said:

I think you should've found a better statement to quote, which even XXxPrePxX (yo, can I call you just PreP?) validated except for the "aircraft" bit. Unless you have an idea on why putting all eggs in one basket is in any way a good idea, especially in YR?

I also think you need to cut down the elitism.

More power. If enemy has Gattling Tanks, I wouldn't build planes to be honest, not worth losing a lot of money trying to do such small damage, but that's just me at least

[Plokite_Wolf]

1 minute ago, Lud0wig said:

More power. If enemy has Gattling Tanks, I wouldn't build planes to be honest, not worth losing a lot of money trying to do such small damage, but that's just me at least

If the enemy has Gattling Tanks positioned to defend a Bio Reactor, as I've already elaborated.

The damage isn't small if it's just one or two Bio Reactors full with infantry powering the base. Take one out and you've cut the enemy's power. The same way you can micro Harriers into the base, you can micro them out of it.

[Gun_Man]

40 minutes ago, Plokite_Wolf said:

I think you should've found a better statement to quote, which even XXxPrePxX (yo, can I call you just PreP?) validated except for the "aircraft" bit. Unless you have an idea on why putting all eggs in one basket is in any way a good idea, especially in YR?

I also think you need to cut down the elitism.

I just picked the first post i saw when i decided to comment.  I dont even know how many planes it would take to kill a yuri power, likely 4+.  All I know is that there is a very high chance all those planes will die, and I'd prefer to not lose 4800 to kill 600 which can be rebuilt in a few seconds.

Secondly, it's not about elitism, but just the fact that this forum topic isn't about teaching you about the game.  If you don't understand the reasoning for some of the posts, just let it be and ask someone on the side.  it's better to not let the topic get sidetracked like it has already

Edited January 26, 2018 by Gun_Man

[Plokite_Wolf]

1 minute ago, Gun_Man said:

Secondly, it's not about elitism, but just the fact that this forum topic isn't about teaching you about the game.  If you don't understand the reasoning for some of the posts, it's better to not let the topic get sidetracked like it has already

Are we not talking about balancing throughout the thread?

 

1 minute ago, Gun_Man said:

isn't about teaching you about the game.

Patronize me some more, I dare you.

[Lud0wig]

Just now, Plokite_Wolf said:

If the enemy has Gattling Tanks positioned to defend a Bio Reactor, as I've already elaborated.

The damage isn't small if it's just one or two Bio Reactors full with infantry powering the base. Take one out and you've cut the enemy's power. The same way you can micro Harriers into the base, you can micro them out of it.

Depends on who you play, again, I wouldn't waste a lot of money to do such small damage, usually the enemy will build various units and it's harder to be sneaky with planes enough to kill one of his Bio Reactors, I can cut his power, great, he can just rebuild it and have his power back in no time, I wouldn't do that knowing I might lose all my planes I spent a lot of money on, and just to cut his power when I can use them on something else, if I can, otherwise I just don't build planes, Flak Tracks and IFVs are easier to kill than Gattling Tanks... I wouldn't attack a base with planes if he has AA, no matter where it's placed, be it Gattling Tanks, even if I'm sneaky, I haven't done much, it's not worth the effort to be honest...

[FlyingMustache]

As a Yuri player, I would love to see you build harriers against me. That's 4800 in ground forces you don't have, this is vital when fighting Yuri as allies. Allies don't have a hard counter to gat mags like Iraq does. (Not until tier 3 anyway.) While yes, putting all your eggs into one basket has its drawbacks, killing reactors with harriers isn't practical.

Edited January 26, 2018 by FlyingMustache

[XXxPrePxX]

Plok,

Aircrafts is absolutely useless vs. any decent yuri player. It is especially useless when considering the argument that one should go for the power plants. The only aircraft that is useful is siege choppers and that is really due to their ability to be deployed and be used as the soviets only real long distance threat against yuri, but I digress, so here's why harriers attacking the power are usless:

1. The argument is built on the assumption that the yuri player has all his/her eggs in one basket with one bio reactor. This is almost always a false assumption against a good yuri player. A good yuri player will take advantage of the bio reactors by having multiple of them around the base in different areas to make life miserable for the opponent. But let's continue with the assumption that the yuri player DID have just one major bio reactor.

2. Harriers are uselesss against gattling tanks. Gattling tanks are the life blood of the yuri team. Every single yuri player will have gattling tanks out. It's yuri's main unit to do all the dirty work. All it really takes is one gattling tank vs. 4 harriers to take them out, but by the time you have 4 harriers, any decent yuri player will have 3-5++ gattling tanks ready for them. The reason they are so deadly is due to their damage, but mainly due to the fact that they can shoot while running away from harriers/units. So, where flak traks and IFV have to use control + shift and are capable of being hit, gattlings can run directly away from the harriers and still shoot them down.

3. The next assumption you are making is that the player simply won't see the harriers. This is also false in any competitive game. Their very easy to spot and any good yuri player will be able to see them coming and manuever the gattling tanks into position properly.

4. Even in the wildest scenario possible where the 4 harriers effectively take out the bio reactor... yuri builds a new on in a matter of 10 seconds maybe. 

 

 

[heldro]

13 hours ago, Plokite_Wolf said:

 

I've played it since 2001, bub.

maybe its time to play a human opponent buddy.

Edited January 27, 2018 by heldro

[fir3w0rx]

On 1/26/2018 at 7:23 AM, FlyingMustache said:

If there could be any change to the game, what would you all vote for? A unanimous change.

Trump's wall will be completed before that^ happens .

Making the game free-to-play and open-source would be nice. But changes in terms of game-play... umm... buff hardly-used units (terrorists, tank destroyers, demo trucks...)

[Plokite_Wolf]

1 hour ago, fir3w0rx said:

and open-source

The source code was lost almost 15 years ago.

[JSDS]

Hi,

I'm sure any allied player will agree with me on this one .

Iron curtain 5 mins to be ready to use .

Chronospher 7 mins to be ready to use .

I sudgest chronoshper timer down to 5 mins same as IC ,or IC to 7 mins same as chronoshper.