Unanimous Change

[ZiGZaG]

9 hours ago, Lud0wig said:

Maybe I should start to put Tesla Troopers in Flak Tracks to support my tanks lol

If its sov v sov without iraq this is a very effective tactic. They take a lot of damage and can deal it out aswell

 I played a game of appels wasteland a few days ago the range on tesla troopers had been increased. They where incredibly o/p imo. Cant get near them with tanks/conscript/miners only a deso or massing your own tesla would have a chance.

[TK3600]

17 minutes ago, ZiGZaG said:

If its sov v sov without iraq this is a very effective tactic. They take a lot of damage and can deal it out aswell

 I played a game of appels wasteland a few days ago the range on tesla troopers had been increased. They where incredibly o/p imo. Cant get near them with tanks/conscript/miners only a deso or massing your own tesla would have a chance.

What about siege chopper? They are slow and vulnerable to HE. Too slow for offensives too. Conscripts too I think can beat them per dollar, with 5 v 1.

[FlyingMustache]

27 minutes ago, TK3600 said:

What about siege chopper? They are slow and vulnerable to HE. Too slow for offensives too. Conscripts too I think can beat them per dollar, with 5 v 1.

Yes, conscripts beat tesla men. Zigzag probably lost one encounter in an unfortunate series of events. I have extensive testing under my belt and can confidently say that a range boost does not make them op.

Edited February 6, 2018 by FlyingMustache

[FlyingMustache]

1 hour ago, FReQuEnZy said:

Yet in my balancing of the Tesla Tank it takes out Battle Fortresses with ease and most other Yuri units with 1 hit, which makes Russia more preferable as the Desolator does not see much use against Allied due to the addition of the Seal.

I want to play your mod map. I wanna test it. I'll get Kireeek to jump on as well.

[[CC] RaVaGe]

 

1 hour ago, TK3600 said:

I am not much of a PvP pro but I thought deso bomb is a counter to mirage tanks and prism tanks.

It is, however it doesn't see as much use in YR as it does in RA2, due to most players making a seal and GGI Battle Fortress. 

[[CC] RaVaGe]

11 minutes ago, FlyingMustache said:

I want to play your mod map. I wanna test it. I'll get Kireeek to jump on as well.

It's just a quick bunch of tweaks to...
Try & nerf Yuri in a way that leaves it feel very similar to Yuri players, while allowing a more RA2esque meta to be used against it.
Boost or nerf country specific units so they are useful in multiplayer scenarios, while making them OP in their own way, though I feel they must be to maintain the feel of the game and give a unique advantage to each country.

[Lucifer]

im curious to what your current approach to fixing germany is ?

 

 

 

 

[[CC] RaVaGe]

+100 health
+1 movement speed
+ $100 cost

[Lucifer]

5 hours ago, FReQuEnZy said:

+100 health
+1 movement speed
+ $100 cost

germany's problems run a bit deeper than making the most useless unit in the game cost more time / money to build...

[TK3600]

2 minutes ago, Lucifer said:

germany's problems run a bit deeper than making the most useless unit in the game cost more time / money to build...

That would be terrorist lol.

[dkeeton]

8 hours ago, FReQuEnZy said:

+100 health
+1 movement speed
+ $100 cost

My opinion about the tank destroyer - increase the turn speed and then give it Rhino Tank range and re-work the versus... This tank destroyer feels like something you could micro a lot.

 I don't see people tweak these options a lot so I just want to remind people that they exist.

[TNKD]
ROT=10

[SABOT]
Speed=10
Range=5.75

[SABOTE]
Speed=10

[UltraAP]
;Original Verses=2%,2%,2%,100%,40%,100%,2%,2%,2%,2%,100%
;Increase the damage to harvesters, desolaters, brutes and buildings
Verses=2%,2%,50%,100%,100%,100%,15%,15%,15%,15%,100%

[UltraAPE]
;Original Verses=2%,2%,2%,100%,50%,100%,2%,2%,2%,100%
Verses=2%,2%,50%,100%,100%,100%,15%,15%,15%,100%,100%

 

 

[[CC] RaVaGe]

Some good ideas.

Though I don't see why you changed the weapon so much, even boosted the anti v3 verse. xD

[[CC] RaVaGe]

7 hours ago, Lucifer said:

germany's problems run a bit deeper than making the most useless unit in the game cost more time / money to build...

Yeah, let's ignore the other changed completely!

[ore_truck]

15 hours ago, Lucifer said:

im curious to what your current approach to fixing germany is ?

 

 

 

 

buff the Tank Destrroyers.

[[CC] RaVaGe]

5 hours ago, dkeeton said:

My opinion about the tank destroyer - increase the turn speed and then give it Rhino Tank range and re-work the versus... This tank destroyer feels like something you could micro a lot.

 I don't see people tweak these options a lot so I just want to remind people that they exist.

[TNKD]
ROT=10

[SABOT]
Speed=10
Range=5.75

[SABOTE]
Speed=10

[UltraAP]
;Original Verses=2%,2%,2%,100%,40%,100%,2%,2%,2%,2%,100%
;Increase the damage to harvesters, desolaters, brutes and buildings
Verses=2%,2%,50%,100%,100%,100%,15%,15%,15%,15%,100%

[UltraAPE]
;Original Verses=2%,2%,2%,100%,50%,100%,2%,2%,2%,100%
Verses=2%,2%,50%,100%,100%,100%,15%,15%,15%,100%,100%

 

 

 

So, based on your input I've re-worked it a bit.

;> Increased Tank Destroyer health by 100.
;> Increased Tank Destroyer price by 100.
;> Increased Tank Destroyer firing range by 1.75.
;> Increased Tank Destroyer movement speed by 1.
;> Increased Tank Destroyer's Rate of Turn by 2.
[TNKD]
Cost=1000
Strength=600
Speed=6
ROT=7

[SABOT]
Range=6.75

[SABOTE]
Range=6.75

These changes make it a good defensive unit that's more micro able and gives Germany a good counter against armour.
Increasing damage against buildings and infantry would just make it too OP. 

Edited February 7, 2018 by FReQuEnZy

[TK3600]

My buff is to increase range to 6.5 and damage to buildings and infantry to 5%

[ZiGZaG]

On 2/6/2018 at 5:45 PM, TK3600 said:

What about siege chopper? They are slow and vulnerable to HE. Too slow for offensives too. Conscripts too I think can beat them per dollar, with 5 v 1.

Siege would probably work on a larger map, but requiring a tier 3 unit to overcome a tier 1 unit seems rather ridiculous.

On 2/6/2018 at 6:03 PM, FlyingMustache said:

Yes, conscripts beat tesla men. Zigzag probably lost one encounter in an unfortunate series of events. I have extensive testing under my belt and can confidently say that a range boost does not make them op.

I tested this with the guy like 6 games in a row, mabye the range was too much or mabye he had increased the fp aswell? Im not sure but trust me even about 100 conscripts with 20 rhino behind them i couldnt get near 30 tesla. I probably killed 6-7 and after he had 2-3 elites it was over lol.

 

Also did you ever play Piscenix's ra2 mod? 1.007? That was probably one of the best 'mods' i ever played. He made tank destroyers and tesla tanks more useful and made it allied vs soviet instead of individual nation's meaning sov's had deso/tesla tank/terrorists/demo trucks and allies had eagles/para's/sniper's/cannons and tank destroyers. Was pretty well balanced aswell.

Edited February 7, 2018 by ZiGZaG

[Lucifer]

;> Increased Tank Destroyer health by 100.
;> Increased Tank Destroyer price by 100.
;> Increased Tank Destroyer firing range by 1.75.
;> Increased Tank Destroyer movement speed by 1.
;> Increased Tank Destroyer's Rate of Turn by 2

 

If you insist on having TD's play the role of  -- i can only sit in one place and defend and suck vs infantry / buildings and any attack that involves movement makes me totally useless-- than this still is not enough change. 

[FlyingMustache]

3 hours ago, ZiGZaG said:

Siege would probably work on a larger map, but requiring a tier 3 unit to overcome a tier 1 unit seems rather ridiculous.

I tested this with the guy like 6 games in a row, mabye the range was too much or mabye he had increased the fp aswell? Im not sure but trust me even about 100 conscripts with 20 rhino behind them i couldnt get near 30 tesla. I probably killed 6-7 and after he had 2-3 elites it was over lol.

 

Also did you ever play Piscenix's ra2 mod? 1.007? That was probably one of the best 'mods' i ever played. He made tank destroyers and tesla tanks more useful and made it allied vs soviet instead of individual nation's meaning sov's had deso/tesla tank/terrorists/demo trucks and allies had eagles/para's/sniper's/cannons and tank destroyers. Was pretty well balanced aswell.

He must have increased the damage as well. A tesla trooper vs 5 conscripts gets obliterated, unless elite. Elites deal very high damage with the splash.

I didn't play Piscenix's mod, but it definitely sounds interesting. Worth a try if it's available anymore anyway.

[Lucifer]

you dont need to limit each upgrade to a factions specialty unit. 

For example, for germany, u can make their harriers cost 1,000 instead of 1,200.  Countless small things like this. 

For great Britain, you can give them the option to make a hospital, and reduce the chrono legionaire cost to 1300 instead of 1500 and poof u got an entirely new, infantry-based way of playing vs iraq.  Exclusive to great britain ofc. 

 

[XXxPrePxX]

1 hour ago, Lucifer said:

you dont need to limit each upgrade to a factions specialty unit. 

For example, for germany, u can make their harriers cost 1,000 instead of 1,200.  Countless small things like this. 

For great Britain, you can give them the option to make a hospital, and reduce the chrono legionaire cost to 1300 instead of 1500 and poof u got an entirely new, infantry-based way of playing vs iraq.  Exclusive to great britain ofc. 

 

Love these ideas. It would make each faction that much more complex by just adding small changes that flow with them well.

Germany would be able to build a machine shop, maybe so would Russia.

A lot of different ideas you can do here, the GB example you gave sounds mouthwatering.

[[CC] RaVaGe]

That's completely changing the meta for the entire game and is going far into modding territory, I've seen a few people attempt and finish making that type of mods.
While they certainly are interesting, we should consider the base game.

For example, while Lucifer is dissing my changes to Germany, it does change the meta when playing vs Germany as Soviet or Allied.
Tank destroyers are capable of defending off early rhino rushing and also deter late game armour offerings like Apocs & Battle Fortresses.
While being weak against infantry lets the Soviets use the Tesla Trooper and Conscript more effectively in the early game not to mention air units.

[Lucifer]

2 hours ago, XXxPrePxX said:

 

Germany would be able to build a machine shop, maybe so would Russia.

 

Umm, Yes !  Germany with a boosted stat TD + mech shop. Worth it. 

42 minutes ago, FReQuEnZy said:

, we should consider the base game.

For example, while Lucifer is dissing my changes to Germany, it does change the meta when playing vs Germany as Soviet or Allied.
Tank destroyers are capable of defending off early rhino rushing and also deter late game armour offerings like Apocs & Battle Fortresses.
 

 

First of all

2 hours ago, XXxPrePxX said:

 

Germany would be able to build a machine shop, maybe so would Russia.

A lot of different ideas you can do here,

 

^Look at who this is and what he just said.

 

Second, lets talk base

The base of allies is America. America because they are the best. While France and korea can play some roles, nothing remotely compares to  INFINITE + FREE troops being deployed on the battlefield. These troops can snipe conyards, miners, tanks, straight up win a game for free, they can also be used to push the enemy and finish them off, free of charge. But most of all they can be used to secure your base from attacks--not just rushes, but rushes, middle and long game attacks alike ....................................for free...............................................endlessly.

Basically.... TDs are redundant / inflexible / awkward

Mirage tanks, prism tanks, battle fortrees, gaurdian gis, GGI ifvs, prism towers, grand cannons, desos, rhino tanks themselves, pretty much everything in the game can can play a role that TDs play. Even grizzly tanks are better by their sheer multi purposefulness. Defending is however, the only use of the tank destoyer, and on top of it the tank destroyer is worse than most of those options (even with the boosted stats) because it has extremely lopsided weaknesses (such as ~ 0 ! damage to infantry and buildings). May i remind you that this is a  weakness  that free, infinite, dynamic sky-troopers do not possess. 

It comes down  how much ommphh each side gets from their afc. Tank destoyers just dont cut the cake  when compared to infinite free units and harriers on roids. They need something else. 

[[CC] RaVaGe]

1 hour ago, Lucifer said:

Look at who this is and what he just said.

Don't care.

You don't even try to manage to learn the unit's new meta, but just want another grizzly tank that's stronger.

[dkeeton]

13 hours ago, FReQuEnZy said:

Increasing damage against buildings and infantry would just make it too OP. 

 

There isn't really a buff vs infantry here, the 50% is only vs Brutes and Desos. I added a moderate buff vs buildings and harvesters because the enemy can counter your tank destroyers by simply not building any tanks. It doesn't feel right to have this unit being something that you can only use after the enemy commits to tanks.

As it stands now 5 TDs can't even overcome the rate of repair on a building.

If anyone wants to experiment with versus the order is:

Verses = infantry, hero infantry (tanya etc), heavy infantry (brutes/deso), light vehicles, medium tanks, heavy tanks, normal buildings, armored buildings, walls/conyard, drone, missles/rockets

Verses=2%,2%,50%,100%,100%,100%,15%,15%,15%,100%,100%

 

And a thought about Libya trucks: I think they should cost less and do less damage but have way more hit points, maybe Strength=500 and do only enough damage to kill a power plant and a battle fortress, then give them the speed to run a bf down like a cheetah. Eh, just a thought, I haven't even tried that in a game.