FlyingMustache Posted February 24, 2018 Author Share Posted February 24, 2018 @Legolas just veto the maps you don't like. Calling the maps you don't like "crap" is just your opinion. The staff isn't going to bend over backwards for your specific needs. A good mix of maps will be thrown in, and they won't always be your favorite, you have to accept that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XXxPrePxX Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 Not only that @Legolas, but you admit you haven't played in a while. Have you played since ZigZag's map additions? If not, then what you are saying is harshly outdated. ZigZag has a total of something like 30 maps in QM. I find it hard to believe the ratio is anywhere near 10 bad maps to 1 good map. You bring up OK-ish points on some maps like Dune/CS. I can grant you that, but there is a lot of maps in QM now. I believe this is the updated list: https://forums.cncnet.org/topic/7984-yuris-revenge-january-2018-qm-map-list/ I don't nearly see a 10:1 distribution. For me, there might be like 3-6 maps I don't personally like, but understand why they are in QM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZiGZaG Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, FunkyFr3sh said: I just checked the map list of YR and there are 30, but you can only veto 3... that's terrible, forget what I said. I get your point. Note: I don't play YR, so I can't discuss the gameplay of the maps. I can only say that the initial idea of the map veto was to prevent the problems you describe. It should be possible to veto half-1 (aka 14 maps) to ensure everyone can enjoy the ladder, this needs fixing. I can fully understand that it's impossible to get everyone to agree on playing these 27 maps that are forced currently There are 21 maps in qm, not 27 and not 30. 32 'scenario's' as these scenario's include YvY on the same map's, the veto you are talking about doesnt work, it keeps resetting to 15 vetoes. Currently there are 11 map's that all 3 factions can play on against each other. This means after that every other map has to be added twice 1 for allies and sovs and once for Yuri v Yuri. Bieng able to veto 9 or 10 map's out of 21 seems completely ridiculous to me, all that happens is soviet players cancel all the maps that favour allies, allies veto all the map's that favour soviet's, and everyone veto's map's that you can play Yuri on. The competitive factor of the ladder becomes redundant, it just becomes who can abuse the system the best to suit their needs better than anyone else. Personally i think you should be able to veto about a 10th of the map list if any, at the moment its at 1/7th. This would allow you to avoid bugged or unbalanced map's and a few you don't like but stops players being able to abuse the system to benefit their faction/style of play. The map's can be changed at any point people just need to ask, of course if Grant/dkeeton ever responds about this technical limit of 32 scenario's we can have 40-50 map's with a higher number of veto's available. This would probably work better for everyone. More player's would get what they are looking for from the QM system regarding the map choices. That being said its been 6 weeks since i asked the question and i still haven't even had a response, so probably not worth holding your breath. Edited February 24, 2018 by ZiGZaG 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZiGZaG Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, Legolas said: i'm not sure if the map pool has had any changes since i last played. nor i know which maps are selected for certain kinds of games(avs etc) but i can surely say that some maps like urban rush,country swing, dune patrol, dust bowl should be removed(i'm not completely aware of the maps as i said so this is just a MUST list of removements) also some great maps like heck and jungle(i'm not sure if it is in the pool or not) miss spot in the qm. Urban rush has never been in qm on cncnet to my knowledge. Not since i got involved with it anyway. Country Swing and Dustbowl are in QM because they are among the few map's that are balanced enough for all 3 faction's to play on, you gotta remember at the moment we can have only upto 32 'scenario's' This doesnt mean 32 map's, For example if we have a map that would only work as a mirror game (AvA,SvS,YvY) this would take 3 scenario's, the system we are using to do this is unfortunately very limited in the way it works. I dont understand your problem with dustbowl though, perfectly balanced map that works with all 3 faction's. Also Jungle is in Qm. 2 hours ago, Legolas said: this post requires a "lol" at first because any pro player knows that heck is the king of maps in both ra2 and YR(as it has too much flexible game play compared to others) secondly, i don't only play the maps that i like to play but when the ratio of good maps to trash maps is like 1:10 i don't get the motivation to go through it. *you need to know that by the term "good map" i mean a map in which there is a lot of flexibility and offers a player series of options to go through in the game. i.e. in the map dune patrol, how many different game play is available other than spamming tanks and/or making ic to win the other guy? super campfest map. though when we talk about maps like heck or jungle, rushing or camping for a long game ic usage is not your only option. the options you have while playing the game is limitless. i.e. you can do a lot of harassment, use distractive /damage based splits, the state "map control" has a real meaning which makes the game be more strategic, yu have the option of using more creative unit combination etc. so how many of above can you really do in a map like dune patrol? they're just non sense(esp. when you have to play them in a row for 2-3 games as the client wans so) also maps like cs should be definitely removed because of the economy disadvantage top side has(not sure how much but it seems to be about 16k which can make a lot of difference in a late game) 'any pro player knows heck is the king of map's' Im a pro player and i rather dislike heck, in qm it jsut becomes who get's mid first and that involves little to no skill/ability, sure we can add it though, On dune you can rush, mass war or tech for super's same as every other map out there. You have all those options on any map including dune partrol, again this just seems your opinion which im fine with, make it one of your vetoes. CS is only 7k of a difference, again this is one of the few map's that work with all 3 faction's. If they ever fix this limitation on the map choice's i think players like yourself would find it much more appealing. Edited February 24, 2018 by ZiGZaG 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legolas Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 hmm...you asked people why they don't like to do qm right? i simply told my own opinion and why i don't play them. i'm mainly a ra2 player and can't find most of the fun and good maps here and instead i find some uninteresting stuff. i see people pointing on me to show me as a fool or someth. don't wanna argue it anymore tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZiGZaG Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 1 minute ago, Legolas said: hmm...you asked people why they don't like to do qm right? i simply told my own opinion and why i don't play them. i'm mainly a ra2 player and can't find most of the fun and good maps here and instead i find some uninteresting stuff. i see people pointing on me to show me as a fool or someth. don't wanna argue it anymore tbh. Im not argueing with you mate and i respect your opinion im just trying to make you understand the way it currently work's, I think if we could have a bigger more diverse map pool it would probably be more interesting for player's like yourself who dont like the way the map choices work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkeeton Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 5 hours ago, ZiGZaG said: I agree with you about the faction per map issue. The veto system works in the example you gave and if we ever heard back about increasing this 32 scenario limit it would probably work better, however a few weeks ago i changed the amount of possible veto's to 3, ive done this 3-4 times now, i dont know if its a bug in the system or if yourself/prep is changing it back but it keeps appearing as 15. There's only about 20 or so map's so this seems to be kinda broken. In order to allow for 3 user vetoes, you need to set the veto count to 13. That will allow 10 auto-faction vetoes and 3 user vetoes. I was the one who changed it previously, and I've just changed it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XXxPrePxX Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 8 minutes ago, Legolas said: hmm...you asked people why they don't like to do qm right? i simply told my own opinion and why i don't play them. i'm mainly a ra2 player and can't find most of the fun and good maps here and instead i find some uninteresting stuff. i see people pointing on me to show me as a fool or someth. don't wanna argue it anymore tbh. TBH, you come off wrong. You came in here saying the map list was why you didn't QM, but you didn't really know what you were talking about regarding them. You didn't give any real examples until your latest posts, and even then, the examples you gave were either not real (Urban hasn't been in CNCNet QM from what I recall) and not supportive of your argument. Perhaps, it's your perception of the map list that is why you do not QM. The actual map list, if you took a second to check, is actually good and what you kind of seem to suggest. There is a negative perception of the map list since the CNCNet client was launched with 10 or so maps that were not good for QM competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZiGZaG Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, dkeeton said: In order to allow for 3 user vetoes, you need to set the veto count to 13. That will allow 10 auto-faction vetoes and 3 user vetoes. I was the one who changed it previously, and I've just changed it again. What about this technical limit of 32 scenarios? Can we get an answer on this please? Edited February 24, 2018 by ZiGZaG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkeeton Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 2 minutes ago, ZiGZaG said: What about this technical limit of 32 vetoes? Can we get an answer on this please? It's going to take a lot of work to get more maps. I haven't starting working on it yet, but I do have a plan to increase the limit. In the next update, we'll also be able include random maps too which, if you wanted to do it, would take 1 scenario slot per random map topography. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZiGZaG Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 1 minute ago, dkeeton said: It's going to take a lot of work to get more maps. I haven't starting working on it yet, but I do have a plan to increase the limit. In the next update, we'll also be able include random maps too which, if you wanted to do it, would take 1 scenario slot per random map topography. Grant previously said about having 40-50 map's available to do this the limit would have to be around 100 scenario's possibly more. Not personally a fan of randomly generated maps if that's what you mean, nor do i think the majority will be. Given how it works you would probably find yourself in ridiculously unfair situation's. And it would take 1 slot if you involve all 3 faction's i assume. I don't see how you would be able to moderate the Yuri faction on randomly generated maps. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZiGZaG Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 (edited) Btw this is the current map list All Faction's and match up's 1.Dune Patrol 2.Offense Defense 3.Dry Heat 4.Heartland 5.Montana DMZ 6.Country Swing 7.No Wimps 8.Dustbowl 9.Hidden Valley 10.Divide and Conquer 11.Caverns of Siberia AvS/Ava/SvS/YvY 12.Snow Valley 13.Snow Valley 14.Official Tournament Map B 15.Official TOurnament Map B 16.Jungle of Vietnam 17.Jungle of Vietnam 18.Tour of Egypt 19.Tour of Egypt 20.May Day 21.May Day 22.Depth Charge 23.Depth Charge 24.Rounhouse Kick 25.Roundhouse kick 26.Ying-Yang 27.Ying-yang 28.Death Valley Girl 29.Death Valley Girl 20.Stormy Weather 31.Stormy Weather 32.<available> The 2nd list of map's you'll notice are there twice because it has to be a seperate entity for Yuri to play on it (only against another Yuri). We could always remove them and have only the first 11 map's for yuri player's this would add another possible 10 map's for sovs/allies? Dont know what people would think of this, would probably benefit the majority but kinda limits the Yuri players, although i wonder how often YvY actually occurs? Mabye not enough to warrant an extra 10 map's? Or we could just have 32 map's and have Yuri available on every map? Seem's the easiest way to increase the map limit but then you face Yuri in crazy situations. I dont know what would work best at the moment. There is also 1 slot available so we can add another map if anyone has any suggestion's. I tryed to add amazon's delta but cant for the life of me find it in the system. Also if you have any thought's, suggestion's or idea's of how you think it would work better in the meantime feel free to let me know and ill try to fit them in accordingly. Edited February 24, 2018 by ZiGZaG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[CC] RaVaGe Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 7 hours ago, XXxPrePxX said: (Urban hasn't been in CNCNet QM from what I recall) Correction, it hasn't been in QM for the last 2 months. I had it in. Though I never saw him mention it before or hell just veto it. 7 hours ago, dkeeton said: In the next update, we'll also be able include random maps too which, if you wanted to do it 1 No way, that should be reserved for some unranked auto-match option. 6 hours ago, ZiGZaG said: Mabye not enough to warrant an extra 10 map's? Or we could just have 32 map's and have Yuri available on every map? 1 Do we have enough data or evidence from other players to decide which course is the best to take? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZiGZaG Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 (edited) 13 hours ago, FReQuEnZy said: Correction, it hasn't been in QM for the last 2 months. I had it in. Though I never saw him mention it before or hell just veto it. No way, that should be reserved for some unranked auto-match option. Do we have enough data or evidence from other players to decide which course is the best to take? I had a look at this month and last month and there was less than 20 YvY games played. So i did some messing around with the qm client last night to try different scenarios and get results but encountered major problems. So i put 32 different maps into qm, 11 of which yuri is playable on, given how little YvY is actually played i thought this might benefit the majority, However the veto system went haywire when i did this. For the Auto Veto's (Maps YR isnt involved) it was required to be 20 then i wanted to set 4 user vetos so 24 in total. Problem is this gives Soviet and allied 24 possible veto's out of 32 maps which is outrageous imo. :/ The other end of the Scale i tryed setting the total veto's at only 4 which appeared to work, allies got 4, Soviet's got 4, Yuri got 0. But then i was informed that yuri would appear on every map, even if the client doesnt have it listed. Stuck between a rock and a hard place with this one im afraid.. Anyway at the moment there is 3 choices. 1.we can revert to the previous 21 map scenario. 2.have 32 maps with which you could face yuri on any map and be allowed 4 veto's for allies/sovs 0 for yuri 3.Have yuri limited to the 11 maps suggested and allow soviets and allieds 24 veto's each out of a possible 32. Here's the additions btw Maps that can Involve Yuri Dune Patrol Offense Defense Dry Heat Heartland Montana DMZ Country Swing No Wimps Dustbowl Hidden Valley Divide and Conquer Caverns of Siberia Maps that dont involve Yuri Snow Valley Official Tournament map B Jungle of Vietnam Tour of Egypt May Day Depth Charge Roundhouse kick Yin-yang Death Valley Girl Stormy Weather Pirate Bay Morningtide Meatgrinder Heck Freezes Over Hammer and Sickle North Waves Face Down Paris Revisited South Pacific Bull Run Strobe Obviously these can be changed/edited if 32 different maps is the preffered route. Edited February 25, 2018 by ZiGZaG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[CC] RaVaGe Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 @dkeeton Can we separate the user and scenario pool configuration vetos on the software side of things? So that scenario configuration 'vetos' don't affect user allowed vetos, the current setup has confused just about everyone and as mentioned by ZigZag does have its limitations. 13 hours ago, ZiGZaG said: So i put 32 different maps into qm, 11 of which yuri is playable on, given how little YvY is actually played i thought this might benefit the majority, However the veto system went haywire when i did this. For the Auto Veto's (Maps YR isnt involved) it was required to be 20 then i wanted to set 4 user vetos so 24 in total. Problem is this gives Soviet and allied 24 possible veto's out of 32 maps which is outrageous imo. :/ The other end of the Scale i tryed setting the total veto's at only 4 which appeared to work, allies got 4, Soviet's got 4, Yuri got 0. But then i was informed that yuri would appear on every map, even if the client doesnt have it listed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a1nthony Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 I think there has to be variety to keep people coming back, I quit because I started lagging but when I come back to qm what’s going on for the month.. anything? Is qm still in alpha stages? There definitely needs to be a sub-forum and recognition for playing/competing on the ladder, what that is exactly? I’m sure there are ideas in the works. Also as far as a map list, everyone just needs to agree on balanced maps, and then just put it in a random generator for the month. Quit the bs and just make things happen. If it’s a big problem make a poll for every single map and use the input of older players while you still can. Those are my thoughts.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[CC] RaVaGe Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 10 hours ago, a1nthony said: I think there has to be variety to keep people coming back, I quit because I started lagging but when I come back to qm what’s going on for the month.. anything? Is qm still in alpha stages? There definitely needs to be a sub-forum and recognition for playing/competing on the ladder, what that is exactly? I’m sure there are ideas in the works. Also as far as a map list, everyone just needs to agree on balanced maps, and then just put it in a random generator for the month. Quit the bs and just make things happen. If it’s a big problem make a poll for every single map and use the input of older players while you still can. Those are my thoughts.. There is a sub forum 'ladder' and hof on the ladder. The lag should be less of an issue now that all servers are back online. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkeeton Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 On 2/25/2018 at 5:48 PM, FReQuEnZy said: @dkeeton Can we separate the user and scenario pool configuration vetos on the software side of things? So that scenario configuration 'vetos' don't affect user allowed vetos, the current setup has confused just about everyone and as mentioned by ZigZag does have its limitations. On 2/24/2018 at 10:25 AM, ZiGZaG said: The map's can be changed at any point people just need to ask, of course if Grant/dkeeton ever responds about this technical limit of 32 scenario's we can have 40-50 map's with a higher number of veto's available. There is no longer a limit of 32 maps. I don' think there is a limit but I wouldn't go above 64. \ The number of vetoes in the admin panel represents the number of player vetoes. (I've set it back to 4 for now) Super-weapons can be set to Random and ra2mode can be set to random, but ra2mode will crash on a scenario where Yuri is allowed. (also ra2mode stats probably won't work right). 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[CC] RaVaGe Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 Nice, awesome stuff dkeeton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZiGZaG Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 24 minutes ago, dkeeton said: There is no longer a limit of 32 maps. I don' think there is a limit but I wouldn't go above 64. \ The number of vetoes in the admin panel represents the number of player vetoes. (I've set it back to 4 for now) Super-weapons can be set to Random and ra2mode can be set to random, but ra2mode will crash on a scenario where Yuri is allowed. (also ra2mode stats probably won't work right). Why not go above 64? To include the 40-50 maps Grant had suggested (think it was 52) it will probably need to be close to 100. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkeeton Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 20 minutes ago, ZiGZaG said: Why not go above 64? To include the 40-50 maps Grant had suggested (think it was 52) it will probably need to be close to 100. You can try it, but test to make sure the qm client doesn't crash when you put map 65 in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZiGZaG Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 10 hours ago, Legolas said: putting landrush form of heck? Lol ahaha its a mistake chill ill fix it. Diiscovered we can now add as many maps as we like, ill change heck to tvt,bvb,rvr,lvl. P.S did u win? Lol If you want any other maps in just say the word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legolas Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 6 hours ago, ZiGZaG said: Lol ahaha its a mistake chill ill fix it. Diiscovered we can now add as many maps as we like, ill change heck to tvt,bvb,rvr,lvl. P.S did u win? Lol If you want any other maps in just say the word. np. i was shocked by the map for a min so the game didn't take any longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[CC] RaVaGe Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 7 hours ago, ZiGZaG said: ill change heck to tvt,bvb,rvr,lvl. 5 Keep in mind that this will cause heck to be selected far more often due the 4 additions. Also, I never liked heck being one-sided, I always preferred the RA2 format of diagonal spots. BL vs TR or TL vs BR... It makes it sov favoured with your spots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZiGZaG Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 (edited) 6 minutes ago, FReQuEnZy said: Keep in mind that this will cause heck to be selected far more often due the 4 additions. Also, I never liked heck being one-sided, I always preferred the RA2 format of diagonal spots. BL vs TR or TL vs BR... It makes it sov favoured with your spots. Yea im aware of that, there is a TLvs BR version there aswell which Yuri can be matched on I dont think it makes it more sov favoured though, definetly not on YR. Edited March 1, 2018 by ZiGZaG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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