Who is the best player ever?

[Hunk]

8 hours ago, Andy. said:

All you guys are doing is name dropping old players that were good at the time, you are looking through nostalgia glasses, they were never at the level of play that people are at now.

None of those old players mentioned would be much of a challenge for any top player now, they certainly wouldn't be competing for rank 1, same goes for Tomi.

You're saying nobody cares who was good, all that matters is now.

Let's say Andy (cncnet) and Peachy (xwis) are the best players around now. Personally, i will still picture you the same way. I dont remember ever losing to you or peachy before, and even if you did get better over time, that picturing will stay. Same if Tomi was bad nowadays, the legend picture stays anyways. 

Now let's pretend somebody cares about the current top 18-yrs-old ra2 player. Let's say somebody does... That person should feel lonely.. in front of millions of ppl who care about pro gamers like fortnite's ninja, making over 500 000$ per month. Oh yeah.. Andy is popular.. Marko the Wacko aswell.. for sure.. 

[Stoneman]

Well Tomi dominated when there were, quite literally, 100,000s, playing the game. Nowadays we a looking at about 20 people playing the ladder. LOL!

[Lucifer]

11 minutes ago, Stoneman said:

Well Tomi dominated when there were, quite literally, 100,000s, playing the game. Nowadays we a looking at about 20 people playing the ladder. LOL!

 it was for YEARS too, man!  It was very clear that he was miles ahead of whoever rank 2 fluctuated between. "Mr rank 1" ffs! 

Not just that... it was the way in which he won. Cant explain it, sadly. Gotta experience that shit first-hand. 

 

In terms of biggest skill gap/longest reign Tomi is the best of all time. 

 

In terms of playtime-absolute skill ratio, id say sammo is the best ever. 

 

In terms of absolute skill id say marko is the best player ever. 

 

You could try to also make a case for moon3, but I think it fails. Again, it would take 10 pages to explain why. 

 

tomi and marko for 1v1

sammo for 2v2 

I just put more weight on 2v2 cuz ive always viewed it as the "true competitive format" for this game. 

[XXxPrePxX]

59 minutes ago, Lucifer said:

 it was for YEARS too, man!  It was very clear that he was miles ahead of whoever rank 2 fluctuated between. "Mr rank 1" ffs! 

Not just that... it was the way in which he won. Cant explain it, sadly. Gotta experience that shit first-hand. 

 

In terms of biggest skill gap/longest reign Tomi is the best of all time. 

 

In terms of playtime-absolute skill ratio, id say sammo is the best ever. 

 

In terms of absolute skill id say marko is the best player ever. 

 

You could try to also make a case for moon3, but I think it fails. Again, it would take 10 pages to explain why. 

 

tomi and marko for 1v1

sammo for 2v2 

I just put more weight on 2v2 cuz ive always viewed it as the "true competitive format" for this game. 

Good analysis as always. Tomi was truly remarkable as many of us know! If nothing else -- it's simply a numbers game... 100,000's of then vs. the few 100 now. It's just not comparable. No matter what someone does now, they'll never be able to take that status away, unless of course the game balloons into the 10,000's++ again.

[Andy.]

2 hours ago, Stoneman said:

Well Tomi dominated when there were, quite literally, 100,000s, playing the game. Nowadays we a looking at about 20 people playing the ladder. LOL!

Never in XWIS history did they have more than 1000 players active (1000 being generous) and more than half didn't play QM.

And I believe I had the most points in XWIS YR history (YR) at 1380 in March 2009 a month where Tim, Prep, Dean, Kris were all in the top 10 and 3 of us had 1000+ that month.

So how was Tomis time more active and dominant when no one on YR had even gotten 1000 prior to 2008?

Edited October 12, 2018 by Andy.

[Jeen]

I played this game since 2011 and I personally believe  the best player and the toughest one is latof, he's extremely tough yet skilled with unbelievable defense skills.

Basically latof was extremely good 1v1 and 2v2 (played Vs and With him so many times so I can tell ) no one ever since i joined xwis beat latof a single series (bo9) except marko and tim. Also he's unlike marko who sux at 2v2s. (99% of the players nowadays if you defeat their rush you'd pretty much win the game but if you could beat latof's desos then you would win the game)

that picture was in my mind until I saw The God " moon3 " and let's be realistic he's the god himself of this game IMO. just check out his videos in youtube.

there are moments in ra2/Yr where you can tell from observing some games that it's a 100% lose and then it's a WIN. Thats work for moon3

The bottom line is ( 1st moon3 , 2nd Latof )

 

[XXxPrePxX]

54 minutes ago, Andy. said:

Never in XWIS history did they have more than 1000 players active (1000 being generous) and more than half didn't play QM.

And I believe I had the most points in XWIS YR history (YR) at 1380 in March 2009 a month where Tim, Prep, Dean, Kris were all in the top 10 and 3 of us had 1000+ that month.

So how was Tomis time more active and dominant when no one on YR had even gotten 1000 prior to 2008?

Tomi didn't just play on XWIS dude. Tomi had at least 3 rank 1's when the game was in it's true booming state on WOL. That's when 100,000's were on. Also, Tomi had the most points in history of the game at 1499 on Ra2 if I recall. There's just nothing he hasn't done when it comes to both ra2 and yr. (Another reason why he is so valuable as he conquered both games with equal domination). 

[Andy.]

That's cool but WOL wasn't even remotely regulated, everyone was cheating, ladder hacking etc. But if he was truly great he would have  gotten 1501 points on YR instead of noob bashing in tourney games for +2 point games. to get 1499 on ra2 which doesn't matter since they didn't have badges.

[VWWWWWWWWWWW]

On 10/11/2018 at 12:18 PM, Hunk said:

I remember Tomi could beat me 2 tanks vs 5, he clicked every where like a god. Rumors said he had high tech equipment, but the skills are amazing still. Tomi did have something in common with marko and all others tops: he sucked big times on naval maps, cried every time the map would pop up.

I dont think who is second best player matters, because there's a long way between that person and Tomi.

If you lost 2 tanks to 5 then you are just horrible. Like really horrible. I've 1v1'd Tomi many times and he was not very hard, and free win in 2v2. And he bailed a TON. You dunno wtf ur talking about. Ur just a fanboy that saw he got a bunch of rank 1s. There is a difference between being the best and having the most ranks etc. I always went into a series vs Tomi thinking I would win it. Against Marko 1v1 I would assume he would win most series. Against latof I basically knew he would win each series. I just tried to pick up 2-3 wins etc =]

 

Sam was great. I don't mind his name being mentioned. Did tons of 2v2 cm's vs him and his allies were very nice. Sov was good too tho. He was basically = to me when he had not been as active. So I'm sure he was a bit better when he was very active. 

 

Andy person...you are only good with Yuri bro....no1 cares about you...U weak....

 

 

Edited October 12, 2018 by VWWWWWWWWWWW

[fir3w0rx]

1 hour ago, VWWWWWWWWWWW said:

If you lost 2 tanks to 5 then you are just horrible. Like really horrible.

Maybe he was firing on his own tanks

[Andy.]

2 hours ago, VWWWWWWWWWWW said:

 

Andy person...you are only good with Yuri bro....no1 cares about you...U weak....

 

 

Even though I am better than you with any country, what would it matter if you can't even take a game off my Yuri?

[Edd]

Tomi was sick in his prime.  He even took a long break and got a few rank 1's when he came back in 2009 and then again in 2014 when a few other top players were still competing. I think overall, he's proven that he should be considered the best ever. Oldschool era newschool era, still managed to be at the top of the ladder. 

**Ranks Since Re-Direction**
 Oct 2005 Ra2 : 1 sLk 96w 21l 1337pts
 Nov 2005 Ra2 : 1 forhonor 71w 14l 1330pts
 Jan 2006 Ra2 : 1 tomigomad 92w 29l 1499pts
 Feb 2006 Ra2 : 1 fivestar 60w 13l 1343pts
 April 2006 Ra2 : 1 nyoxol 62w 9l 1423pts
 May 2006 Ra2 : 1 hrvatska 76w 30l 1383pts
 June 2006 YR : 1 g0b 55w 7l 1112pts
 June 2006 Ra2 : 1 t0mi 70w 18l 1426pts
 July 2006 Ra2 : 1 traxex 51w 3l 1386pts
QUOTE (DonCarlo @ Feb 4 2006, 04:19 AM)
tomigomad aka tomi winner of the Red Alert 2 single player ladder with 1499 points (only 2 points off the 5 star badge - is he going to prove everyone wrong who said this badge could not be attained?!?!? :o
Februar 2009 Ra2 : 1 Geminorum
March 2009 Ra2 : 1 Geminorum
April 2009 Ra2 : 1 Geminorum
May 2009 Ra2: 1 Geminorum

  

You can't really argue against this. Whether others have had rank 1's or not, he's dominated the ladder vs the best there ever was and those who were deemed the best in this era.

Edited October 13, 2018 by Edd

[Lucifer]

4 hours ago, VWWWWWWWWWWW said:

 

Sam was great. I don't mind his name being mentioned. Did tons of 2v2 cm's vs him and his allies were very nice. Sov was good too tho. He was basically = to me when he had not been as active. So I'm sure he was a bit better when he was very active. 

He was playing like once every 3 months and was still about as good as me or you when we were practically no-lifing it lmfao.  (and we were ~ "the best" 2v2ers at the time)

Sam really was that good 

 

2 hours ago, Andy. said:

Even though I am better than you with any country, what would it matter if you can't even take a game off my Yuri?

I don't believe Vwwwwww speaks random noob, brah

[XXxPrePxX]

Yeah in regards with tomi his list of ranks just speaks for itself... no one has anything near it when consideting both ra2 and yuris and across different eras. 

 

In regards to wols regulation... it was actually well regulated for the first year or so when tomi was dominating.

 

tomis brother ante was also quite good

[sunny]

Just some random pic I made of me rank 1 on xwis 6 times since 2007, then just recently in July, on cnc net for the 7th time. Top 10 many other times as well. I played Tomi's yuri and allied back in 2008 in qm and always won, although he was good with sovs and ra2. Frank aka lucifier I never remember playing you in qms you shouldn't talk smack because you never played in competitive ladder against me, and if you did, you would never pass me. I wouldn't be so proud if I was you.

 

 

[ZAIN]

On 10/11/2018 at 8:19 PM, Lucifer said:

ill dispel some of the misinformation on this topic

 

--sunny is a 20-0 for any of the real-deals. He's actually a typical, standard, every day scrubberdubbery. 

--moon3 isn't that good. Explaining why is beyond the scope of this forum.

now there's a  real name ma' boysss.  

If you have never played vs sammo in a 2v2 ranked game then you are not eligible to have an opinion worth dickery-dippin-shit on this subject l0l 

if you including 2v2s then how can you forget paf lol ? 

He mastered his shits very well, especially going air and stuff l0l 

[Hunk]

16 hours ago, VWWWWWWWWWWW said:

Ur just a fanboy that saw he got a bunch of rank 1s. 

 

Me? A fan of Tomi? lol!! I am a fan of no one. I'm not impressed by anybody on this planet. Specially gamers. 

But i am smart enough to recognize he was the best ever, much better than random ppl i've never even heard about (like you).

I did not SEE he had a bunch of rank 1s. I could actually FEEL it, being very active in the Tomi era.

[VWWWWWWWWWWW]

15 hours ago, Andy. said:

Even though I am better than you with any country, what would it matter if you can't even take a game off my Yuri?

Just beat your Yuri in QM yesterday actually. Oops. And if you want to 1v1 me with sov/allies on stream to prove that lez go? I asked you this while we were in the same game last month tho and you ran away. You already know I would humiliate you

 

39 minutes ago, Hunk said:

Me? A fan of Tomi? lol!! I am a fan of no one. I'm not impressed by anybody on this planet. Specially gamers. 

But i am smart enough to recognize he was the best ever, much better than random ppl i've never even heard about (like you).

I did not SEE he had a bunch of rank 1s. I could actually FEEL it, being very active in the Tomi era.

Not impressed by anybody on this planet while you suck on Tomi's balls....and that nerd probably doesn't even know who you are lols. And you didn't see rank 1s, you could feel them? You a crazy ass noob

 

Frank: I think people forget Sam cuz he didn't go after ranks. Thaz all people care about

Edited October 13, 2018 by VWWWWWWWWWWW

[XXxPrePxX]

When i look at sunnys resume i see a one trick pony (yuri). A handful of rank ones past tge prime years of the game on yr xwis.

when i look at andys resume i see a similiar outcome with a bit more emphasis on allies. A handful of rank ones past the prime years of the game on yr xwis.

when i look at tomis resume i see an abundance of rank ones across both games with any faction during the primes of the game and many years after on both yr and ra2 xwis and even yr wol.

i mean its not even comparible and this isnt even based off anyones personal opinions. The stats dont lie here...

 

the only one close to tomi is marko but the thing that holds him back is that he wasnt around during the primes... nonetheless an argument can be made for marko to be goat based on stats

 

Edited October 13, 2018 by XXxPrePxX

[Babak]

Probably Tomi

[Andy.]

On 10/13/2018 at 11:33 AM, XXxPrePxX said:

When i look at sunnys resume i see a one trick pony (yuri). A handful of rank ones past tge prime years of the game on yr xwis.

when i look at andys resume i see a similiar outcome with a bit more emphasis on allies. A handful of rank ones past the prime years of the game on yr xwis.

when i look at tomis resume i see an abundance of rank ones across both games with any faction during the primes of the game and many years after on both yr and ra2 xwis and even yr wol.

i mean its not even comparible and this isnt even based off anyones personal opinions. The stats dont lie here...

 

the only one close to tomi is marko but the thing that holds him back is that he wasnt around during the primes... nonetheless an argument can be made for marko to be goat based on stats

 

Basing rank 1 values on what you think was the prime of the game is kind of hilarious.

[sunny]

As the saying goes practice makes perfect and the same applies to the game, the more you play you become better at knowing the maps, unit micro and macros. the prime of players should definitely start at around 2006 or so. 2004-2005 a few people just started coming back on xwis because wol was full of bots for a while and many had quit and were rusty when coming back to xwis.

I played YR xwis since it started in early 2004, there were less players that year until 2006 and 2007 when I saw the most people in qm and custom game. I was top 5 with allies in 2005 after just using the side for a month in ranked games on xwis when the server pretty much was up for only a year, which you consider the ''prime time'' in yuri? (even though it wasn't) and I personally didn't even use the yr faction until 2006 or so. Only in 2006 -2007, the better and more challenging soviet players started appearing such as Kris, marko, andy, dean which was the the beginning of the real prime. These guys will give you trouble in qm. I can understand there were more skilled sov players on ra2 during the xwis years but most of those guys never played ranked on yuris except for a few.

[Kikematamitos]

Anyway, i will play in this sunday in a live stream i wish to play with good people ( i was playing with trolls). 

[LeOwNzAll]

I come a bit late on this thread but want to tell also things true/not true (with my very old knowledge about this game lol!).

For me Tomi was the only one could be compete for both rank 1 in Ra2 and Yuri at XWIS time.

I never met any others players able to do this, in WOL / XWIS. I was ok on Ra2 but can't compete as top.

I played lot of Top RA2 players, and they could not get TOP 20 on Yuri, and at XWIS time, top 20 on Yuri was the top-top.

For this Tomi is the best. I was not a pro on Ra2, but making 1499 points was crazy. And people here does not know, or did not remember, but there was a matching filter (aka MF).

1st you could not do more than BO5 - and later was Bo7 i think - in one day. And you could not play vs someone with +/- 200 points than you. And on Ra2 there was the Super Badge 5 stars at 1501 points. It was his target. But cause of this MF he could not perform it. Every month is was running over ALL players. Rank 2 was a freewin for him. 3-0; everyday; every maps. And i'm not a Tomi's fan (it's even the opposite lol!).

Maybe after 2007+ there was players who were competitive in both games, this i don't know.

On Yuri's, it was different ! I was there =P

 

On 10/12/2018 at 7:25 PM, Andy. said:

So how was Tomis time more active and dominant when no one on YR had even gotten 1000 prior to 2008?

That is not true. Since WOL started people get 1001+ points; at WOL time, maybe TOP 25 was 1001 points every month. There was some pushing; that's true. But WOL reseted players pushing or washing game (atleast a good part of cheaters).

Same on XWIS; i did several times top 10, and only 1 time rank 1 (ppl bailed me ahah); i can tell about 2005-2006 and like 3-4 players every month people get 1001+ points.

--------

I disagree with a good part (maybe all lol?) of you about how competitive was the game. There is something true about ANY sports. More it's popular; more there are players; more there are noobs and more there are top players also. And all these top players compete and get more skilled, again and again. If there are few players; it needs longer time to get more skilled. It's a fact.

It's easier to be a top in "bobsleigh" and compete for Olympic Games (remember Jamaïca) than trying to be a top at NBA player; Soccer Player etc.

It's same for RTS game. I was top in CnC3 and Ra3; but i could not compete in SC or WC3. Too many players; too many skilled players; i would need ton and ton of hours playing. Less players in CnC3/Ra2, some hours a week was enough to be on top. And i was not as good as i was in Yuri because there were less players.

What i mean it's at WOL time i can tell you the game was the most competitive, there was 100.000+ players online (atleast nickname), at a time where not all people had internet (2000-2002). Can you imagine believe it?

It's not a hard game; I dont know one thing that i discovered now or in 2005-2006 when i went back that i did not know in 2001. Maybe you can tell me? All BO came from this time; i still doing same BO's, fast IC it's the same; fast tech for allied the same; multi wf; micro prism/bf; using fodder infantry/sentry; controlling miners etc. is not it?

For me, WOL, with no contest was the most competitive time. I saw someone quoting "Adam as top Allied players"; he was on XWIS 2006+, but i can tell you like 4-5 nicks, only french, was better than him at WOL time. And i'm not kidding - If it's the adam that i met in 2005/6 -.

 

[Kikematamitos]

I need to say this is ones of the best reply i read in this topic, at some point in the popular games were top players memorize every map and the best strategy for every side, the difference of lose and win can be very influenced by the hardware and that is why people needs 1ms keyboard, mouse and monitor, and also this StarCraft players and also Red Alert 2 and YR or Age of Empires series, top players make like 3 to 5 clicks for every simple action just for make the best timing. 

Maybe the curve of more players-more competitive vs time to learn the game is the most interesting comment because maybe you try to say that old school players from WOL can be better that actual players. 

On ‎11‎/‎13‎/‎2018 at 8:10 AM, LeOwNzAll said:

It's not a hard game; I dont know one thing that i discovered now or in 2005-2006 when i went back that i did not know in 2001

I need to ask if this is true and you know about alting or this one: https://youtu.be/5DwBQZpbvPs or the soviet miner early rush in small maps vs allies?