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SaintZ

Is 1 ref'ing something thats frowned upon in TS?

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So I played a 1v1 Terrace match the other day where I went for a 1 ref rush as Nod. I won the game in sub 4 mins, however I received a lot of hate from my opponent afterwards.

Though the amount of salt was very funny, I am curious to know whether 1 ref'ing is something that is frowned upon by the TS community, since I am still new to this whole TS online community.

 

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None of the really good players care if you 1 ref them.

As for the non-good players, there are some who hate engineers and some who hate being rushed. And if you want to get multiple games from these people you will have to avoid doing engineer rushes. Usually 1 ref CC is acceptable.

 

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9 hours ago, JamesRyko said:

It’s nkt frowned upon as in taboo or forbidden.. 

but most people consider it kind of on the cheap side and a waste of time because it takes more luck than skill. And whether it works or it doesn’t the game is essentially ruined if you were looking for a skill/experience struggle that lasts more than 5 or 6 minutes and involves all aspects of the games skill depth. 

That being said, I’ve never heard anyone complain about it for any reason other than they wanted a game that lasts longer than 3 minutes regardless of whether they win or lose.

when people 1 ref it tends to really throw off the dynamic of the game and usually ends up either ending it in 3 minutes like I said or creating a shit scenario where your stuck in your main tib patch struggling in some kind of annoying moneyless survival situation.. which again takes away from the full skill depth of the game.

Dont concern yourself with the emo-schizophrenic ramblings and opinions of the average Cncnet community member though.. myself included.

 

I've been practicing 1 ref and 2 ref strategies with the idea to finish my opponent before he has a chance to attack. So far I've had a lot of succes with it.

I'm not bothered with the opinions of others in the sense they are just like belly buttons; Everyone has one. It just got me curious after this funny incident post match. I'm not used to people getting overly salty and hate fuelled after losing a video game. Thanks for the headsup! Now I know what to look out for.

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I haven't played much TS online, but I've always thought that on a large map like Terraces, any sort of rush would be easy to defend against because you have a lot of time to prepare before your enemy gets to your base. What are some good ways to defend against a 1-ref-rush anyway; vulcan cannons? Laser turrets? Crush infantry with harvesters? What units will you usually use to rush with Nod?

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Yeah I definately agree with what you said regarding scouting and anti-scouting. Both are very important skills that can, and will make or break your game. Once you've been scouted you're open for incoming attacks. But if you're good at both scouting and anti-scouting, your opponent will most likely have lost the game by the time he has suicided itself with a fly over OF/Harpy. 

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20 hours ago, JamesRyko said:

If anyone’s interested. Scouting and anti scouting can be improved through repetitive practice and you don’t even need another player to do so. Just start single player games and practice opening the map with your started inf.. find the best pathing and Q rallypoints to get the most coverage with the least effort and repeat then repeat the first 2-3 minutesn of the game over and over again until you perform the scouting instinctively as if it’s muscle memory. 

Then once you play against people you can adjust your pathing and timing based on tendencies you pick up from playing vs real players. Such as where the typical running paths are for when you click on a corner of a map, where anti scout groups are typically placed, and where to hide scouts to wait for opportunities to sneak inside the enemy bases. 

If you don’t have all the important areas of the map scouted in the first 2-3 minutes of the game you are doing something very wrong. You can’t always get inside the enemy base hat quick if they’re skilled at anti scouting. But all surrounding area, all corners of the map, all expand patches, all hiding spots should all be open within the first few minutes of the game and it’s easily achieveable without much effort with use of Q rallypoints and light infantry.

I find this very interesting, particularly hiding spots for scouts. It never crossed my mind, but it makes perfect sense. Also is there a 'best pathing' for maps such as Terrace & FF? It's hard to direct your troops accurately to certain spots in the map before you've firstly revealed terrain. Usually when scouting I send infantry to all 4 corners, while I Q rally the rest of my infantry to 'random' spots on the map and scout with them from there on.Most of the time ive scouted the entire map in the first few minutes, but I'm wondering if there are any quicker methods?

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it's fair, it's basically just a cheap way to attempt to win the game. I honestly wouldn't recommend doing it if you're trying to actually learn the game, as it robs you of any opportunity to utilize other skills necessary to progress. I never 1 ref unless i actually don't want to play the person, aka if im vs'ing someone new and i know it will end it very quickly.

Edited by c0rpsmakr

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On 11/7/2018 at 11:08 AM, c0rpsmakr said:

it's fair, it's basically just a cheap way to attempt to win the game. I honestly wouldn't recommend doing it if you're trying to actually learn the game, as it robs you of any opportunity to utilize other skills necessary to progress. I never 1 ref unless i actually don't want to play the person, aka if im vs'ing someone new and i know it will end it very quickly.

Apart from practicing it to finish games quickly I practice it to improve attack and building speed. What 'necessary skills' are you refering to? 

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funny there is even a discussion.  That;s what makes TS so much fun, and if you can beat em doing it , wonderful.

It is not 'cheap'   it is brilliant!  mix it up and beat 'em  

some play no engr as a rule then you should respect the rule.

 

you can use 'q' with multiple clicks to direct your units path.

Edited by amokk
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On 11/9/2018 at 7:57 AM, SaintZ said:

Apart from practicing it to finish games quickly I practice it to improve attack and building speed. What 'necessary skills' are you refering to? 

The only necessary skills to utilize in short games are micro, build speed, and scouting/antiscouting. Doing a 1 ref is, regardless of what the newer players commenting here will say, a gimmicky way to win or hope to win by throwing something unexpected at your opponent. If your opponent scouts you or accurately anticipates what you're doing, your econ will be behind and they'll easily  defend it, then you're playing on the backfoot and vulnerable to them being able to steamroll you with their econ advantage now. Hoping your opponent doesn't expect a 1 ref, relies entirely on trickery, as opposed to actually knowing how to manage your economy, macro, defend/attack multiple areas at once, expand, control the tib fields, along with other strategies that can only be tested in games longer than 5 minutes that teach you to outplay people. 

 

And no, "no engs or build out" are not legitimate rules that "should be respected", they are imaginary rules to inhibit players from playing with every game option possible because the host isn't able to defend vs whatever tactic they're trying to forbid.

Edited by c0rpsmakr
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On 11/14/2018 at 7:02 PM, c0rpsmakr said:

 Doing a 1 ref is, regardless of what the newer players commenting here will say, a gimmicky way to win or hope to win by throwing something unexpected at your opponent.

and in the same post..

 imaginary rules  to inhibit players from playing with every game option possible 

look who's trying to inhibit .......

and i'm not new.

Edited by amokk

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This will be my last time responding to you, whoever you are. Don't cherry pick statements out of my comments and twist them, as I clearly stated that 1 reffing is fair, it is just entirely gimmicky and for those wanting to actually improve, it won't allow someone to grow if they only utilize the skills that are necessary in very short games. And from your posts, it's clear that you aren't someone who has been playing to the point where they have a good understanding of how everything works.

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Thank you C0rpsmakr, I see what you mean now I got stomped by good players a couple of games. I was completely defenseless against inf rushes, and I wasnt able to keep up with my opponents economy. It can be good like you said as a gimmick against people who are unprepared for it. But it cant be used every game. 

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corps,  It is just that  cheap, tricky, and gimmicky, have a negative connotation, which rubs a stink on it, and inhibits players from playing with every game option possible  even if you say it's ok at some other  point in the comment. Here's a nickel, go to school.

SaintZ,  yep If it doesn't work you in a bad spot, but it still effective in the long haul. vary the percentage of games you do it in, and it will keep em guessing.

it's called variable-ratio schedule of  reinforcement  ( @corpsmaker (since I don't have a good understanding of how things work I had to explain it to myself ;) )  see there's more to it than micro, build speed, and scouting/anti-scouting...lol)

it can work great! Fortune favors the brave!

like when someone plays  ???  instead of nod or gdi,  you not sure how they going to come at you, that is invaluable. 

I both love it and hate it when someone mixes it up against me.

Edited by amokk

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