Unanimous Change

[FlyingMustache]

11 minutes ago, ZiGZaG said:

Just because you havent seen it doesn't make it false..

Your Yuri is average at best, the player in question has beat far better yuri players than yourself. Andy/Sunny etc, search for video's if you like. And of course the playstyle is different vs sovs than it would be vs yuri, kinda ludicrous statement.

Just because you claim it doesn't make it true either. Evidence is required. How do you know my Yuri? The last time you even played vs me was over 2 years ago. Would you like to play me now? I'll play a series vs you. I find it interesting that you base experience from a long time ago. Hell, I beat sunny 3-2 YvY 2 months ago. They were ggs though, no disrespect to sunny.

[ZiGZaG]

18 minutes ago, FlyingMustache said:

Just because you claim it doesn't make it true either. Evidence is required. How do you know my Yuri? The last time you even played vs me was over 2 years ago. Would you like to play me now? I'll play a series vs you. I find it interesting that you base experience from a long time ago. Hell, I beat sunny 3-2 YvY 2 months ago. They were ggs though, no disrespect to sunny.

Anytime. Also im pretty sure ive played u in qm over the last few month's, tej said your yurigod? if so then were like 6-1 svy and the only game u won was on pirate bay with sw off.

[FlyingMustache]

What other nicks did you play on? I've only played you on Pirate Bay. As far as I know, we're 1-0

[ZiGZaG]

16 minutes ago, FlyingMustache said:

What other nicks did you play on? I've only played you on Pirate Bay. As far as I know, we're 1-0

a minute ago you hadn't played me in two years.. lol name your time, ill happilly take your points.

[FlyingMustache]

7 minutes ago, ZiGZaG said:

a minute ago you hadn't played me in two years.. lol name your time, ill happilly take your points.

Aside from that one pirate bay game I forgot about months ago, it's been 2 years. You didn't answer my question of the other nicks, yolo. Just que whenever, I don't que at any specific time. Put the e-penis away too. Let's have a civil conversation without such foolish arrogance.

[[CC] RaVaGe]

5 hours ago, fir3w0rx said:

We should buff cows too!

 

Actually, cows got nerfed by Westwood. 
They would give ifvs the same weapon as a president before.

 

2 hours ago, ZiGZaG said:

Think again. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4je24hf5djw

 

Just because Tim didn't think to make conscripts doesn't prove anything in terms of Tesla trooper usability. 
I know for a fact from QMing that tesla troopers are only useful in rare circumstances and would need a buff to be useful more often.

 

2 hours ago, ZiGZaG said:

Another instance is Martins rush on cs against allies (on ra2) he used to go for 4 miners and move mcv to middle and spam barracks. Conscript/deso/flak trooper and tesla with a few rhino behind them is near unstoppable in that situation.

4

Hahaha, I almost forgot my crazy rushes and weird playstyle, thanks for reminding me.

[TK3600]

How about add "auto repair" as part of the CNCnet client? By that I mean AI repair your structures automatically. Yes, it is doable. I did it in my mod.

[DoMiNaNt_HuNtEr]

The term "E-penis"..... I'd smack the guy who coined it. To me, it just sounds really awkward, and a bit stupid. Same with the term "headass".... who's bright idea was that? We already got "dumbass," and that sounds great. Classic insult. Headass doesn't flow nearly as well as dumbass. E-Penis sounds awkward, and a little gay. *Ba-Dum-Tsh* but as of right now I have no substitute for it. Well, aside from the obvious: Ego

11 hours ago, XXxPrePxX said:

 in a typical game, the tesla troopers/ V3's / Russian Tesla tanks / etc. are all very useless units. The tesla trooper (IMO) is the best of a bunch of these units as it does have some very strong rush capabilities, late-game save capabilities, and anti-rush capabilities, but in general they are likely to be built in maybe 1 out of ever 10 games? 1 out of every 15?

A unanimous change for the units that are mostly useless, to become fairly useful. Examples:

- Make v3 rocket's travel MUCH faster. They've always been too easy to shoot down because of how slow they fire.

- Increase Tesla trooper's range, rate of fire, and health/armor (make them immune to dogs)

- Increase Tesla Tank's range, rate of fire (make it burst=2, if it isn't already) and health/armor.

 

Quote

Flying moustache said:    Gattling tank should still shoot on the move since it's not as fast as the other two. Plus it doesn't carry a passenger. Seige choppers can be a problem for yuri, so it definitely isn't a good idea to nerf the gat's shoot move. I think the best thing to do is simply nerf the ground weapon a bit. Slightly lower damage and range on the stage 1 ground weapon brings it down a few notches.

Neat. But about the gattling tank, and it's relation to its equivalent units, the IFV and Flak Track - is the gattling tank overpowered or are the IFV's and Flak Tracks underpowered? How 'bout make the IFV and flak track same speed as Gattling tank (so a bit slower than they are currently), but allow them to fire on the move?

Or is it for sure that enabling IFV's and Flak Tracks and other vehicles to shoot on the move when they're not supposed to would upset the balance too much?

Edited January 29, 2018 by DoMiNaNt_HuNtEr

[FlyingMustache]

28 minutes ago, DoMiNaNt_HuNtEr said:

The term "E-penis"..... I'd smack that guy who coined it. To me, it just sounds really awkward, and a bit stupid. Same with the term "headass".... who's bright idea was that? We already got dumbass, and that sounds great. Classic insult. Headass doesn't flow nearly as well as dumbass. E-Penis sounds awkward, and a little gay. *Ba-Dum-Tsh*

A unanimous change for the units that are mostly useless, to become fairly useful. Examples:

- Make v3 rocket's travel MUCH faster. They've always been too easy to shoot down because of how slow they fire.

- Increase Tesla trooper's range, rate of fire, and health/armor (make them immune to dogs)

- Increase Tesla Tank's range, rate of fire (make it burst=2, if it isn't already) and health/armor.

 

Neat. But about the gattling tank, and it's relation to its equivalent units, the IFV and Flak Track - is the gattling tank overpowered or are the IFV's and Flak Tracks underpowered? How 'bout make the IFV and flak track same speed as Gattling tank (so a bit slower than they are currently), but allow them to fire on the move?

Or is it for sure that enabling IFV's and Flak Tracks and other vehicles to shoot on the move when they're not supposed to would upset the balance too much?

In my experience of many mods, I'll share some with you

V3s are actually quite good in the vanilla game. They don't get used much in SW games since that meta is much too fast paced and because IC is more cost efficient. In no SW games, they are very good. Plus in my experience of CannisRules, another mod, V3s were brutal with a faster rocket lol. They seemed pretty op in fact.

Tesla Trooper - I can agree with range, that's their biggest detriment I would say. Rate of fire, maybe. Health/defense/dog immunity, I don't think I can agree with those. In my mod the increased range, fearlessness, and price reduction to 400 made them quite powerful. They are very useful for defending, for aggresive fodder, and even for flak track rushes. That's with 2 offensive changes and 1 economic change. I don't think the Tesla trooper is bad defensively, so there I don't think it needs defensive buffs. He tanks 10 rhino shots and some decent gunfire damage. Offensive buffs is what the trooper needs imo.

Tesla Tank - This is basically like the tesla trooper. I think it needs offensive buffs to do its job well. In my mod, the increased range and arching damage makes it clear infantry quite well. I added the splash damage to it later since the desolator was outclassing the tesla tank even with the increased range.

Ifv/flak/gat - The IFV shouldn't shoot move. In my experience with Keima's mod, they were too powerful. Like I mentioned several posts ago, when they shoot move, they're basically a better version of a battlefort. GGI IFVs easily kite and destroy tanks with their blazing speed of 10. Sniper and seal ifvs do the same to infantry. REpair ifvs keep your army alive while moving along with it. Chrono ifvs put a halt to any chance you had at maybe catching them with your rhinos. Tier 3 units like prism tanks or choppers can handle them, but good luck getting to that point with the hellish tier 1 battleforts you'll have to deal with. Flak tracks could probably shoot on the move without being as overbearing as IFVs, but you have to consider that flak is the best AA in the game. Having flak tracks move that amazing AA freely at a speed of 8 would not be the healthiest choice in terms of game balance. Gattling tanks move at a slower speed of 6. They can't escape threats as easily as the other two. Therefore, I find their shoot move capability is more needed. However, I do think they deal a little too much damage to certain armor types and it should be changed.

If your suggestions become unanimous though, I"ll still add them into the UC mod.

Edited January 29, 2018 by FlyingMustache

[ore_truck]

On 1/28/2018 at 2:04 AM, DoMiNaNt_HuNtEr said:

But seriously.... how come you guys ain't playing Mental Omega?

Dude, we are talking about RA2/YR not mental omega. It's about balance discussion in RA2/YR units and not talking about a whole new different game. Why do you need to bring up MO here?

[XXxPrePxX]

@DoMiNaNt_HuNtEr MustacheX mainly stated most of my thoughts as well. Mustache is a master at trying to get the less used units into the game through simple modifications. I'm personally more of a traditionalist when it comes to Ra2/YR and I enjoy the base game (but would also enjoy some limited modifications). I think I learn towards zigzag's likely approach that all the units are useful in the right scenario (it's just that in competitive 1on1 games, that scenario is few and far between).

 

Being that this is a topic on unanimous changes, I think we need to take a step back and look at the topics main question:

If there was one thing you can change what would it be?

For me, it would be the magnetrons as stated in this thread. Making them unable to carry miners would solve one of the most annoying issues in the game (the mag miner drop onto the ore ref that basically kills the opponent) and making them unable to take units off of higher cliffs would make it much easier to defend against yuri. These nerfs of the mags would by no means kill the yuri squad, just would take away some of their less skillful play and try to force them to be more skilled with their magnetrons when attacking.

 

Also, I might consider nominating the idea that UFOs shouldn't have health regeneration. Ew.

[FlyingMustache]

I keep hearing the magnetron cliff limitation. I'll make a poll of suggestions that are consistently brought up. Also Prep, if the Magnetron beam is disabled vs miners, the second weapon will take over and deal damage to the miners instead. Both Magnetron weapons are scripted to hit miners, but the beam overrides the second weapon in the vanilla game. Everyone will have to keep that in mind if the Beam is disabled vs miners. Miners won't be 100% safe from mags.

Edited January 29, 2018 by FlyingMustache

[Legolas]

On 1/27/2018 at 9:34 PM, DoMiNaNt_HuNtEr said:

Hahahahahahaa, good ole Polite Wolf. But seriously.... how come you guys ain't playing Mental Omega?

You'd have to mod Yuri's Revenge to get it more balanced, which is the unanimous change you're looking for, right? A unanimous change to make balance better? Start with IFVs and Flak Tracks, buff them so that they can shoot-and-move at aircraft like Gattling tanks.

the latest mental omega version aka 3.3.2 is totally unbalanced. let me give you a very simple example: do you like to see your miners dead each 30 secs with 4 harriers?  probably not.

although mental omega is a fun game but it's been designed to be played against bots. otherwise, it's more unbalanced than a dog fighting sniper ifv.

[[CC] RaVaGe]

Then keep some anti-air near your miners?

4 harriers cost a lot in terms of time and money to produce, if you don't pressure your opponent and force them to use the harriers to defend then there's nothing to complain about.

[DoMiNaNt_HuNtEr]

21 hours ago, ore_truck said:

Dude, we are talking about RA2/YR not mental omega. It's about balance discussion in RA2/YR units and not talking about a whole new different game. Why do you need to bring up MO here?

Because comparing MO to YR is like comparing steak to pork rinds.

@Legolas:    Designed to play against bots? What in the god damn hell are you talking about? You just got owned, thats all, they air rushed you, and you had not scouted, and had no AA, obviously. It happens to the best of us.

@FlyingMosutache   You forgot to consider lowering the IFV and the Flak Track's speed to 6, so that Gatt, Flak and IFV's all have the same speed. That way, all of them being able to fire on the move might actually pan out. Or no?

Edited January 30, 2018 by DoMiNaNt_HuNtEr

[FlyingMustache]

5 hours ago, DoMiNaNt_HuNtEr said:

Because comparing MO to YR is like comparing steak to pork rinds.

@Legolas:    Designed to play against bots? What in the god damn hell are you talking about? You just got owned, thats all, they air rushed you, and you had not scouted, and had no AA, obviously. It happens to the best of us.

@FlyingMosutache   You forgot to consider lowering the IFV and the Flak Track's speed to 6, so that Gatt, Flak and IFV's all have the same speed. That way, all of them being able to fire on the move might actually pan out. Or no?

Maybe, but that simply makes the game homogeneous. You undermine the fundamental theme of the factions. (Like allies being light and fast)

[ore_truck]

I agree that Tesla troopers are situational units useful in the right situations but that situation rarely happens. Buffs for them to be used more often is what i like: increased their range so they are equally feared like guardian GIs (not same range as GGIs of course, just long enough so tanks couldn't kite them).

Tesla Tank: Increased range and firepower, something like RA:Aftermath's tesla tank, long-range support unit with low armor and firing rate. Not sure about lowering it's firing rate as it would decrease their effectiveness against infantry, but they are supposed to be easily overwhelmed by massed infantry, that's how tesla weapons in RA1 and RA3 are weak at. Currently, the tesla tank is just a low armor yet expensive cannon fodder for rhinos that gets killed before they could contribute any damage. Not worth the $1200.

Magnetron: Not sure about cliff limitation but I think giving them master mind's speed is a good nerf. Players have more time to react before they start picking on miners.

Tank destroyer: More firing rate and speed.

[Ezer_2000]

[Legolas]

11 hours ago, DoMiNaNt_HuNtEr said:

Because comparing MO to YR is like comparing steak to pork rinds.

@Legolas:    Designed to play against bots? What in the god damn hell are you talking about? You just got owned, thats all, they air rushed you, and you had not scouted, and had no AA, obviously. It happens to the best of us.

@FlyingMosutache   You forgot to consider lowering the IFV and the Flak Track's speed to 6, so that Gatt, Flak and IFV's all have the same speed. That way, all of them being able to fire on the move might actually pan out. Or no?

don't make me get nervous idiot.i can name 100x more unbalanced shit in that game which makes it totally unplayable for human vs human. and that harrier rush thing is my own tactic no one has owned me with that you noob. another important reason not to play that game is because the client is full of fools like you who have no opinion what does a "balance" mean.

above all, 1v1s in mental omega so i can kick your ass in a few mins?

[fir3w0rx]

58 minutes ago, Ezer_2000 said:

(Read with a high-class British art-analysing accent):

Ah yes, "The YR Lesson of Dr. FlyingMustache" - a Rembrandt classic. It depicts Dr. FlyingMustache pointing out one of several parts of the game that may need some attention. Representing the seven Allied and seven Soviet campaign missions are the seven men with different, yet similar faces (both campaigns run in parallel with each other). Or is it Windows 7 staring at how bad future operating systems are for this game? And finally a book with all the rules (in INI format) sits at the side, awaiting the amendments.

OR... is it just a bunch of old men poking around the inner workings of a dead game?? (which cncnet successfully revived).

[FlyingMustache]

5 hours ago, ore_truck said:

I agree that Tesla troopers are situational units useful in the right situations but that situation rarely happens. Buffs for them to be used more often is what i like: increased their range so they are equally feared like guardian GIs (not same range as GGIs of course, just long enough so tanks couldn't kite them).

Tesla Tank: Increased range and firepower, something like RA:Aftermath's tesla tank, long-range support unit with low armor and firing rate. Not sure about lowering it's firing rate as it would decrease their effectiveness against infantry, but they are supposed to be easily overwhelmed by massed infantry, that's how tesla weapons in RA1 and RA3 are weak at. Currently, the tesla tank is just a low armor yet expensive cannon fodder for rhinos that gets killed before they could contribute any damage. Not worth the $1200.

Magnetron: Not sure about cliff limitation but I think giving them master mind's speed is a good nerf. Players have more time to react before they start picking on miners.

Tank destroyer: More firing rate and speed.

Yeah, tesla troopers definitely need the increased range I would say. Same with the tesla tank. I wouldn't put them at the same level as ra1 though. Ra1 gameplay is the reason Westwood nerfed them so much in the next game. And in my experience with modding, tesla tanks definitely have been a hard tank to balance.

[DoMiNaNt_HuNtEr]

@fireworks: lol, that was good.

@Legolas:  lol, why are you nervous? The only foolish thing here is your comment: "MO was designed to play against AI." Thats just a ridiculous statement. It couldn't be further from the truth. I was one of the beta testers. It was always online play, versus.

MO is balanced pretty good. And oh so the air rush was you then? Well congratulations, it was you who owned the other guy. lol, why are you nervous, you're supposed to be owning. I bet you could beat me at MO. I haven't competed in in a while.

Anyways that air rush could have been stopped. I've seen ppl do it all the time.

[[CC] RaVaGe]

6 hours ago, FlyingMustache said:

 And in my experience with modding, tesla tanks definitely have been a hard tank to balance.

1

I think I reached a reasonable medium with the Tesla tank, it's slightly better than rhino in tank combat due to the price difference, but in small numbers they absolutely destroy battle fortresses and deal slightly increased damaged to buildings compared to rhinos, usually more so to defences.

[TK3600]

Have you guys tried my AI mod? I think I did a great job balancing too. I will not say it is perfect, but every change is made carefully and conservatively. Many of the changes mentioned I already made. Namely these but not all. Reference: grizzly range is 5, rhino is 5.75

1. Tesla trooper fire range buffed to 5, with enough rate of fire to beat a grizzly but not Rhino. Previously it lose to grizzly if both stand still.

2. Tank destroyer range is 6.5, will fire first against Rhino. It was 5 before.

3. Apocalypse tank can fire on move.

4. Demo truck same hp as flak truck, and deal enough damage to kill war factory and enough radiation to kill survivor infantry come out of building. Cost 1400.

5. Terrorist can be build immediately with barrack, immune to friendly terrorist, immune to tank crush, damage buff to 3 hit a barrack.

6. Tesla tank range buffed from 3.5 to 5, can fire on move now.

 

I will not say they are as strong as desolator, but every nation has enough niche to justify unique unit over only using regular units.

[FlyingMustache]

1 hour ago, FReQuEnZy said:

I think I reached a reasonable medium with the Tesla tank, it's slightly better than rhino in tank combat due to the price difference, but in small numbers they absolutely destroy battle fortresses and deal slightly increased damaged to buildings compared to rhinos, usually more so to defences.

What I ended up deciding is figuring out the role the tesla tank would fill. Sovs already have great anti heavy armor and anti building. They have weak anti infantry and weak anti light armor. So I made the tesla tank excel at that instead and weakened the damage vs heavy armor. Now I think it's in a good spot.