RA2 YR - Canal Crossing - Work in Progress + ambiance sound cause crash

[Netskky]

Hi there and happy new year !

I'm a beginner in map editing on Final Alert 2 and I recently stumble upon a strange issue with RA2 YR while play-testing my first map.
I found a way to avoid the issue but I'm looking for help to see if it's only on my side or this can affects other people too.
If you want to skip the technical stuff and just try it out, you will find the map in the reply below.

If you want to help me, here's my issue ;

My game come to a hard freeze/crash at random times, sounds and mouse still works but my CPU get maxed out on any core the game is running on. It can happens after 5 min to 30 min approximately. (At first I thought it was my client but I tried every patch, every compatibility mode, and every fix I found out there, each time with a fresh installation... this took about 2 months of my life )



After a very long investigation I found out that this was only occurring with maps using ambiance sounds.
Removing all waypoints with ambiance on my map fixed the issue and I did not experience any more crashes !

So my question is, I'm I doing something wrong ?

I wish to keep the sound design on my map but I don't know if this will affect other people.
I'm looking for experience people to play-test the map and see If it works with the ambiance.
[You'll find a version of the map with ambiance and one without below.]
Maybe it's one ambiance that's f*cked up, maybe it's how I use them... But I'm running out of idea.
Any help would be greatly appreciated. ❤️

Things to note :
-There is no lag/slow down before it occur.
-This bug seam to also occur on other RA2 YR maps using ambiance but on mine it happen faster/more often.
-I use just a bit less than 200 wp, I know there's an alert when you use more than 99 wp but I saw some official YR maps using more than this so I ignored it.
-This didn't happen on my older PC that was also running on Windows 10 Pro x64-bit.
-I got the game from the ultimate collection on Origin and currently use the Cncnet launcher.

My specs :
Windows 10  Pro x64-bit
CPU : Intel Core i9-7900X @ 3.30GHz
RAM : 128 GB
GPU : Nvidia GeForce GTX 970 - 4 GB
(Don't mind the build, it's was made for heavy medias and post-production workflows.)

Thanks for reading and I wish you a lovely day !
Take care ?

*I'm not a native English speaker so pardon me if I made mistakes.

Edited January 6, 2019 by Netskky

[Madness]

I have no answers but seeing as it didn't happen on your older PC I think it might be related to your hardware setup. Or drivers and such thing.

[Netskky]

Canal Crossing (2x2x2x2)

High Resolution preview (render glitches not fixed) : https://i.ibb.co/CKWd2FF/Canal-Crossing-2x2x2x2-v2-08-00.jpg
or try this link if the first is not working : https://ibb.co/chx5Ldd

Name: Canal Crossing (2x2x2x2)

Description:
Play 2v2v2v2 on a wide river bed at night lighten by a full moon and a warm city glow.
Special thanks for RaVaGe for his support and his idea that shaped this version.

Size: 200x200
Players: 2 - 8
Theater: URBAN
File Size: 834 Kb
Money on map: 539'600
Assets: Oil Derricks, Power Plants, Airports, Machine Shops, Outposts, Spy Sat.

As mentioned in the post above, due to issues with ambiance sounds, you'll find a version with and one without ambiance.
canal_crossing_2x2x2x2_v2.08.00.map
canal_crossing_2x2x2x2_v2.08.00_NO-AMB.map

////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Canal Crossing (4x4)

High Resolution preview (render glitches not fixed) : https://i.ibb.co/Kw76bW9/Canal-Crossing-4x4-v2-07-07.jpg
or try this link if the first is not working : https://ibb.co/zJbsQZS

Name: Canal Crossing (4x4)

Description:
Huge fun map for Naval and Air battles set on a wide river bed that can be crossed by 4 redundant bridges.
Play standard 4v4 by defending your side of the canal to slowly overtake your opponents.

Size: 200x200
Players: 2 - 8
Theater: URBAN
File Size: 834 Kb
Money on map: 538'200
Assets: Oil Derricks, Power Plants, Airports, Machine Shops, Hospitals, Outposts, Tech Center, Spy Sat.

As mentioned in the post above, due to issues with ambiance sounds, you'll find a version with and one without ambiance.
canal_crossing_4x4_v2.07.07.map
canal_crossing_4x4_v2.07.07_NO-AMB.map

////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Background:
I always wanted to create huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge map for 8 players in RA2YR with a polished setting.
It's somewhat symmetrical but not quite. N-E is more open water and S-W is more narrow and difficult to maneuver.
The 4 bridges lane are to make it a bit harder to control them but you can always choose to disable bridge destruction to add some spice !
Some key points that if left neglected could bring your demise, some tech are vulnerable so think twice before choosing to spend resources on.

If you have any issue and/or some constructive feed back I'll be more than happy to listen !
This work is free and available to all that wish to modify or use assets for your own projects !!!

I hope you will have as much fun playing this map as I had working on it ! ?
Cheers

Change-log:
v2.08.00 (2x2x2x2) [Based on v2.07.07]
-Starting positions near the edge where moved so 4 players start on individual platforms in water and 4 near de briges
-tech platforms where modified to have more space to build on it. Not satisfied yet so will probably change
-Removed Hospitals because rocketeers:op and I could not find a satisfying spot that would be balanced for all players
-Removed secret-lab tech to mirror middle island ore
-Changed the ore patch layout and distribution. Need more feedback to make it better
-Moved para-drop and machine-shop tech to bridge supports to be more vulnerable
+Some aesthetic changes

v2.07.07 (4x4)
-Removed a lot of oils tech near start position and removed the nuclear reactors
-Changed the 4 bridge support to be more fat and with side ramps to be access by water units
-Changed city level near start position to be higher and more interesting for gameplay
-Changed middle more open, less trees, and techspysat for now...
-Added ramps to the start position to access water more quickly
-Added bridges to access tech near start positions to be more difficult to control
-Added back door ramp to secret lab in the top of middle island
-Added more ore in the bottom of middle island
+Some visual changes

v2.07.06
-Changed oils platforms to ore platforms at the edge of the map (N-E & S-W)
-Removed some ore mines near the spawns to entice players to expand out for income. (Need more data to make it right)
+Some minor fixes

v2.07.05
-Removed silos and more structures from oil platforms
-Fixed oil platforms position to be more balanced (approximately same distance from shore)
-Fixed north oil platforms slope side to be mirrored compare to the south ones
-Added civilian flak canons on oil platforms to remove allied heli advantage (just a test need more feedback)
-Fixed 1 bridge hut with water underneath resulting on being not accessible for units except Seals & sexy Tanya
-Removed some city buildings that where unnecessary
-Added a missing fountain
+Some minor changes

v2.07.04
-fixed a cliff gap that I didn't notice on first release... T_T

v2.07.03
-first release

 

Edited January 24, 2019 by Netskky
map update

[Netskky]

14 hours ago, Madness said:

I have no answers but seeing as it didn't happen on your older PC I think it might be related to your hardware setup. Or drivers and such thing.

Yes I suspected this but as any other sound form the game is working properly and just ambiance sound making it crash I find it pretty weird.
All my drivers are up to date, if it's hardware then that sucks. ?

[[CC] RaVaGe]

Damn, that's a pretty fine map for being made for the casual scene.
Good job.

Wanna join my creative's discord?
We have many map makers who like to put out polished maps.

[Netskky]

40 minutes ago, RaVaGe said:

Damn, that's a pretty fine map for being made for the casual scene.
Good job.

Wanna join my creative's discord?
We have many map makers who like to put out polished maps.

Thanks man ?

I can come by sometimes but I must say I'm not very good with discord...

[Kikematamitos]

Is like bridges to far map, i love it. 

[Netskky]

14 hours ago, Kikematamitos said:

Is like bridges to far map, i love it. 

Yeah I saw that map when I started mine so I thought to myself that two is better than one and went on with it.
I clearly took some inspiration and tried to add some twist to it. ?

Also I saw you on youtube !

[Madness]

On 1/5/2019 at 4:59 AM, Netskky said:

Yes I suspected this but as any other sound form the game is working properly and just ambiance sound making it crash I find it pretty weird.
All my drivers are up to date, if it's hardware then that sucks. ?

Actually since I posted that I too had a sound issue. No crash, but some sounds were simply not working. It seemed all the sounds from the expansion pack didn't work. Such as the Guardian GI voicelines or deploy. Or any of the other units who got voicelines with yuri's revenge. It was however not map related. As it happend to all the maps. Removing and reinstalling the game and cncnet fixed it though, but it might happen again. Also there was a sort of crackling sound for the ambiance sounds, it leaves me a bit worried. 

[Netskky]

On 1/6/2019 at 1:34 PM, Madness said:

Actually since I posted that I too had a sound issue. No crash, but some sounds were simply not working. It seemed all the sounds from the expansion pack didn't work. Such as the Guardian GI voicelines or deploy. Or any of the other units who got voicelines with yuri's revenge. It was however not map related. As it happend to all the maps. Removing and reinstalling the game and cncnet fixed it though, but it might happen again. Also there was a sort of crackling sound for the ambiance sounds, it leaves me a bit worried. 

Indeed, this is worrisome. Are you also using the Origin game as well as the base game files ?

I feel like your bug is different from mine. For me the all the sounds and the game works perfectly until the crash. No sound missing nor any playback issue.
But the crash still occur after a random amount of time if any ambiance sound is present on the map such as :
_SFX_Amb_OceanHeav
_SFX_Amb_UrbanMurmur1
_SFX_Amb_BirdsHarbor
...

But by manually deleting all [Actions], [Tags], [Triggers], [Waypoints] generating ambiance sound on any map fixes my issue and I can run the game for up to a day with NO crashes even while heavily alt-tabbing and working with a lot of other software running in parallel.

I have this bug even after reinstalling the game and using different patches (CnCGraphicsPatch, ddwrapper, XWIS, ts-yr_proxy and more..)
It just there and I can't find a way to fix it.

One I ideas was to try to find the game files of the ambiance and replace them with a copy from whom it worked. But I doubt this will fix anything... @_@

[[CC] RaVaGe]

Triggers are probably being implemented incorrectly which is why your map crashes.
Your high-resolution preview link is not working.

[Netskky]

5 hours ago, RaVaGe said:

Triggers are probably being implemented incorrectly which is why your map crashes.
Your high-resolution preview link is not working.

I probably did. It was a bit confusing and now I see how I may have done it wrong after re-watching a tutorial.
I'll try to redo it from scratch and see if it will fix the issue or not.

I've added an alternative link but both are working on chrome and Firefox on my side. it's a pretty large picture so probably wont work everywhere.

Thank you for your feed back !
Take care

[[CC] RaVaGe]

Both links work now.

You've got a possible terrain error on the bridges, the small ' bridge support' islands on the top right corner, the tile is glitched on the render, you should check that the pink like is connected properly. As you've possibly overwritten a tile that's part of the bridge tile which can cause nasty movement (pathfinding) errors.

Edited January 8, 2019 by RaVaGe

[Netskky]

11 hours ago, RaVaGe said:

Both links work now.

You've got a possible terrain error on the bridges, the small ' bridge support' islands on the top right corner, the tile is glitched on the render, you should check that the pink like is connected properly. As you've possibly overwritten a tile that's part of the bridge tile which can cause nasty movement (pathfinding) errors.

Thanks !

If you are talking about this type of glitch ;


I have this glitch on every bridge in the rendered file. After checking in editor and in game I did not notice any problem but then again I'm not sure at 100% if I used it correctly. Please correct me if I did anything wrong and/or not optimized. I used CNCMapsRender v2.3.0.0 to make the preview... Is there any alternative ?

Take care

PS: I found one bridge hut with water underneath resulting on being not accessible for units except Seals and sexy Tanja. I will correct it in the next version very soon.

[[CC] RaVaGe]

I use that same version too, but there was one earlier version that had fewer bugs AFAIK.
I checked your map in the editor and it looks fine near the bridges, shouldn't be a problem. 

However seeing the map close up in game, you should consider making some areas less chaotic and add more space between buildings or fewer buildings on the map entirely. As all of it tends to lean towards information overload.
When placing structures carefully consider how each one affects gameplay.

For example, on the oil islands, the double cistern silo would force engineers to go around the oils rather than straight through the middle. When players are harassing the oils from both air and sea, this might cause frustrations, especially with the explosive oil barrels nearby.

Lastly, the oils being on islands gives Allied factions a huge advantage, due to their transport chopper, which can get to the islands fastest. Personally I only ever see ore and gems being fit for islands, not tech buildings. Consider expanding the terrain on islands and adding ore and buildable space.

Edited January 8, 2019 by RaVaGe

[Netskky]

On 1/8/2019 at 5:29 PM, RaVaGe said:

I use that same version too, but there was one earlier version that had fewer bugs AFAIK.
I checked your map in the editor and it looks fine near the bridges, shouldn't be a problem.

Alright thanks ! I'll try to do it with an earlier version if I find one. Or just fix it with Photoshop...
 

On 1/8/2019 at 5:29 PM, RaVaGe said:

However seeing the map close up in game, you should consider making some areas less chaotic and add more space between buildings or fewer buildings on the map entirely. As all of it tends to lean towards information overload.
When placing structures carefully consider how each one affects gameplay.

For example, on the oil islands, the double cistern silo would force engineers to go around the oils rather than straight through the middle. When players are harassing the oils from both air and sea, this might cause frustrations, especially with the explosive oil barrels nearby.

Lastly, the oils being on islands gives Allied factions a huge advantage, due to their transport chopper, which can get to the islands fastest. Personally I only ever see ore and gems being fit for islands, not tech buildings. Consider expanding the terrain on islands and adding ore and buildable space.

I love chaos ! But I understand that not everybody do. I'll try to remove some unnecessary buildings in the next version but I like the dens city look of some area. So it will probably take me few tries to make it right for game play and look satisfying.

I wasn't so sure about the oil platforms and I appreciate your feed back. I will remove the clutter(silos, barrels) and try to make them more simple.

For the Allied advantage I though this would be an issue. Do you think that by adding civilian flak cannons would remove the immediate advantage and force it to be taken by amphibian transport or at least cleared by a seal before ?

I prefer the oil tech than ore because it's a one way trip, if you don't defend it and it gets bowled up you can't just come back. This make it high risk high reward in my opinion. Also being small leave more space for naval maneuver. I don't know, I'll see in time and with more feedback if I change it to ore or get rid of it completely.

Thank you for your time.
I wish you a lovely day and take care !

[Netskky]

Updated to v2.07.05 ! See the change-log for more information.

Also updated the preview and fixed some rendering glitches (with Photoshop because I could not find an older version of CNCMapsRender yet).

Cheers

[[CC] RaVaGe]

14 hours ago, Netskky said:

For the Allied advantage I though this would be an issue. Do you think that by adding civilian flak cannons would remove the immediate advantage and force it to be taken by amphibian transport or at least cleared by a seal before ?

That might work, give it a try and playtest it. Always playtest, that's where the real answers are.

 

14 hours ago, Netskky said:

'll see in time and with more feedback if I change it to ore or get rid of it completely.

Maybe only do this with the middle oil platforms at the edge of the map, you don't need a lot of ore, just some (3-4) ore mines on a small patch of ore.
Balance these with the numbers at main bases so players have a reason to move out to take them.

5 ore mines are enough for 1 player to have a reasonable economy.

[Netskky]

So I finished a job and had finally some time to do an update ! Check it out (v2.07.06 at the top) if you want ^^

On 1/10/2019 at 11:51 AM, RaVaGe said:

That might work, give it a try and playtest it. Always playtest, that's where the real answers are.

Maybe only do this with the middle oil platforms at the edge of the map, you don't need a lot of ore, just some (3-4) ore mines on a small patch of ore.
Balance these with the numbers at main bases so players have a reason to move out to take them.

5 ore mines are enough for 1 player to have a reasonable economy.

Yep I tested with a lot of heli (various azimuth of approach) and could not land a single one even with tech machine shop. The flaks works well but they have a big impact on the air game play. More on that later *...

I made ore platforms to replace the formerly oils platforms at the edge of the map like you suggested.
And I removed some ore mines near the spawns but not being a pro I'm still not sure if it's the best combination and will update after more feedback.
 

* Now back to the flak. So I'm undecided if this is the best way to counter the allied helicopter advantage. I heard that mapper try to avoid any civilian fighting unit/structure for many good reasons and this could just end up be frustrating for some. (God I wish the soviets would have an air troop transport too...)

But, I like it in some twisted sadistic way because it make the air space more complicated to maneuver and the islands provide a massive stronghold positions/native no-fly zones. Bonus twist, if a major part of the power tech is captured and/or destroyed, this would theoretically make the flak non-operational. (Not tested yet)

Here you can see a visual representation in red of the no-fly zones (It's literally hot!), and some majors flight path color coded. [ Red means hot :]

*EDIT : This version is no longer accurate, please check the hi-res previews of the map to see the modifications.

Major side effect of this is more than 60% of your para-drops + scouting planes will get taken down. ?

Looking for opinions ?

I always play-test 2 to 3 times before each update to see if at least it run properly on my client, still I'm sure I left some bugs to be discovered and will do my best to polish it before a formal release. I want to make this map right, but I won't be able to do it without help. ❤️
Thank you again for your support, greatly appreciated !

Cheers

Edited January 24, 2019 by Netskky
added disclamer because the map changed

[[CC] RaVaGe]

Message me on Discord with a time when you'll be available so we can play test.

Edited January 16, 2019 by RaVaGe

[Netskky]

I'm back with a big update ! Thanks to RaVaGe and his kind help, I made a dedicated 2v2v2v2 version of the map. Check it out ;)

I also kept the original 4v4 more suited for casual player (like myself ?) and did some general changes to both. I'm a bit tired so I won't go too much into details, but you can see the change log for more info.

If you try it out and have any advice, feedback, reaction, stream, or any idea I will check it out.

In the meantime, I wish you a lovely night.
Xx

[[CC] RaVaGe]

Those are some impressive maps.
I look forward to trying them out.

Really nice work.

 

Edited January 24, 2019 by RaVaGe

[XXxPrePxX]

First off, the detail in the maps is second to none. Everything flows so smoothly. 

I'd absolutely love to play these maps in FFG settings. I hope to play the 4on4 one soon.

I am skeptical about the flak cannons, I don't *Hate* them in ffgs, but I think they are unneeded. I'm not worried about the helicopter advantage, that's why we can have teammates... a team of all soviets here is fucked anyway. 

There doesn't seem to be a whole lot of ore/gems near the home base (and no oils). I worry about the economy, but that might not be a bad thing. A lot of FFG maps that are created end up having wayyyy too much money. So I'm excited to see how this plays out. 

[Netskky]

8 hours ago, RaVaGe said:

Those are some impressive maps.
I look forward to trying them out.

Really nice work.

Cheers ❤️
 

6 hours ago, XXxPrePxX said:

First off, the detail in the maps is second to none. Everything flows so smoothly. 

I'd absolutely love to play these maps in FFG settings. I hope to play the 4on4 one soon.

I am skeptical about the flak cannons, I don't *Hate* them in ffgs, but I think they are unneeded. I'm not worried about the helicopter advantage, that's why we can have teammates... a team of all soviets here is fucked anyway. 

There doesn't seem to be a whole lot of ore/gems near the home base (and no oils). I worry about the economy, but that might not be a bad thing. A lot of FFG maps that are created end up having wayyyy too much money. So I'm excited to see how this plays out. 

Thanks man !

I'm not sure about what FFG stands for, could someone enlighten me ? ?

Yeah the flak is still to be determined if it stays or not... But I tried to make it so if all 8 players take their respective power tech, resulting in only about 4 power tech left in the middle island (-1 if the spy-sat was taken), it will disable all the flak canons and open the air space. Of course this will vary depending on how many flak canons where destroyed... I can change this value later with more feedback. Or will get rid of it if too frustrating for the majority. ^^
[*This works best in the 2v2v2v2, the 4v4 I should probably replace the far edge power plants by oils because there is no motivation to take them all]

Yep, I removed a lot of oils and some ore mine near the spawns so you have to expand a least a bit to have a stronger economy. If you get besieged, or turtle too much you will run low on resources. At least this was the idea. Now I need more opinion to see if there is too much or not enough for each version of the map. So let me know how it feel.

Anyway, I wish you a lovely day, and thank you for your input !
Take care

Edited January 24, 2019 by Netskky
woops made a mistake