Jump to content

CnCNet Forums

Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
BluySY

Why is there no ladder for CNC TD like there was in the WW chat days

Recommended Posts

I think it's hurt the game TBH, but I could be wrong...

Part of the issue now is that we've added LOADS of maps into the map pool, and it's arguable which ones are competitive. At least in the old WWchat days there was a short list, and any player with worth knew the maps... AND they could choose or see the slected map and not play on anything that was considered badly imbalanced.

Even the RA1's "pro" community has decided what maps are their top tier stuff, but it's worth noting that their top maps are literally mods (edited harvesters, AND ore). So those are more like StarCraft's "fastest money possible" and "Big Game Hunters", which are popular, but interestingly are laughed at by the serious competitive community of StarCraft.

I've talked about at least building some sort of system to file maps so that we could have something, but it always seems to devolve into bad blood (simply because people want things to be their way). And I get that.

 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To Chem,

It is not simply Democracy vs dictatorship. I personally don’t like that attitude that assumes “just because we played our game in the 90s, We have the final word.” You gotta think about more openly. You still have the mentality of ww days. This mentality of WW days almost killed TS for all new comers at one stage and still an issue. Large chunk of new players are from the new generations. They opened their eyes to the new age games. They are coming from games that are religiously balanced with ranking system that are fair and just. CNCNET is ambitious enough to advertise their games to this kind of population. My point of view is that the ranking system should not be a turn off for new comers ‘the future gamers’. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There's too much ego-tripping and game-dodging even without a ladder. I don't think one would make things better or draw in more players. Tournaments seem like a better option, but then you'll definitely have to have a limited map pool, fixed resolution, etc. The main problems are:

A) we lack the player base and games count to derive any meaningful statistics on what maps are actually balanced enough to include them in a pool;

B) we lack the tools to record such statistics, unless we all write down details of how all of our games go, which borders on science fiction;

C) it's all hard to do. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Even if you say that people can choose to NOT play against someone on a map... you can HIDE things on a map. So you could make a duplicate map with extra structures to capture and walls and what not.
So, no. It doesn't really solve it.

Nor does 2 people agreeing to play on a map make the map fair; it just means that at least one person might not know that a map is bias. (that makes a ladder even more unfair on new players).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No. You don't understand...

Say I asked to play you on Blistering Sands... you know the map, know it's pretty well balanced and accept...
But, unknown to you, I placed 2 con yards in the top right corner... it's an edited version with the same name!
So I walk 2 engies up and and BINGO I'm 4000 richer! (structures don't show on the minimap)

OR
Say you're new to the game and don't know what's fair... and I just pick a totally open map with no terrain. Poor bugger is trying to play GDI vs Nod on a massive map. I just make buggies and insta GG him.
He didn't know better. And now, because he didn't know the map, he loses his ladder points. How can a game be fair if it's only the newest of players to be involved with the design of fair maps (as they'd be picking them).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've just explained, twice, that the map preview DOESN'T show everything.

And if you had con yards hidden, and took them and sold them, your opponent would never know, would they?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It doesn't show structures. It's caught me out before... and I literally just looked at it now.

I'm sorry that you don't understand that 2 people agreeing to a map doesn't make it a 'fair map', because it's completely open to human error. If we wanted to make a fair ladder, we'd want to limit human error as much as we could. That's the POINT of a ladder. To have an official register of who's 'better' than who.
If it's not a fair ladder, then it's pointless.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

GDI are only somewhat disadvantaged when the map is both open and impassable for troops / impossible to expand on because of too much tiberium. Otherwise they do well, proof are GA, other stock maps and Utah 2047, which is almost completely open and has been a multiplayer staple for 20+ years. The big point is: if GDI can't expand early on they have no way to deny Nod map control until much later. This can be played around but not always, it seems.

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I try to make my maps responsibly fair, but they're designed to maximise different strategies, more than anything else.

That's why we'd need a way to select a group of maps for ladder, or a filtering system; basically, a standard on how maps are made for competitive play. Which we tried to talk about before, until you completely derailed ALL the threads associated with such ideas and discussion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I made a thread on map archetypes to start to understand different styles. You completely went out of your way to fill it with garbage. I'm note writing that up again.
You want to shit on your own carpet, you're going to learn to doesn't just wipe up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Similar Content

    • By uzernaem
      Hi,
      I was being nostalgic and decided to reimplement cursor graphics from the PS1 version. Note that some of the changed stuff is not a 1:1 rip from PS1 but a recreation, due to PS1 version lacking some of the sprites. Scroll icons were moved a bit for the smoother transition to the "stop sign" versions. They don't touch screen edge anymore, but still look fine.
      mouse.zip

    • By [email protected]
      I got the complete whatchawhatever from Origin and I'm trying to relive the wonderful days of my introduction to RTS, but it seems as if none of the games are functioning.
      For Tiberian Sun, clicking anything in the menu freezes the whole program.

      For C&C RA2/YR, the mouse is invisible.
      And so on.

      Is it really necessary to download third party patches for games that Origin (Electronic Assholes) are charging money for?

      You have my thanks and best wishes,
      Me
    • By DoMiNaNt_HuNtEr
      I wanna download C&C95 but the link on your website is dead. You guys still got access to that file?
    • By FunkyFr3sh
      Running CnCNet server using systemd (Linux x64)
       
      wget downloads.cncnet.org/tunnel.sh sh tunnel.sh 200 "Unnamed Server" If you're unsure what linux distro to choose, just take the latest version of Ubuntu
       
       
      Using the above method you can run both CnCNet servers as a service and they will continue to run even after the server restarted.
       
      Alternatively you can also run the servers individually (see below):
       
       
       
       
       
      New Server (All Games)
       
       
      Linux x64 example:
      wget -c https://downloads.cncnet.org/cncnet-server.tgz -O - | tar -xz nohup ./cncnet-server --name "My cool server" --maxclients 200 --port 50001 --portv2 50000 > cncnet-server.log 2>&1 & Linux ARM
       
       
      Windows:
      On XP, Vista and 7 make sure .NET 4.0 is installed: https://www.microsoft.com/en-US/download/details.aspx?id=17113
      Download the server and start it: http://downloads.cncnet.org/cncnet-server-gui.exe
       
       
      Note: Servers are chosen automatically by CnCNet and are only used in case 2 players fail to establish a Peer-To-Peer connection. Yuri's Revenge players can select a specific server via the advanced settings while hosting a game room.
       
       
       
       
       
      Old Server (Yuris Revenge only)
       
       
      Linux (Ubuntu) example:
      sudo apt-get install default-jre wget http://downloads.cncnet.org/cncnet-tunnel.exe nohup java -jar cncnet-tunnel.exe -name "My cool server" -maxclients 200 -port 50000 -headless > cncnet-tunnel.log 2>&1 &  
       
      Windows:
      Download the server and start it: http://downloads.cncnet.org/cncnet-tunnel.exe
       
       
      Note:  To use a specific server you'll have to select it via the advanced settings while hosting a game room.
       
       
       
       
       
      The servers will not show up instantly on the website, it can take up to 4 hours
       
       
       
    • By AndrewFord
      CnCNET is great, and since RA source code has been released this is a huge step in improving the game and adding nice juicy features that allow us to enjoy the game we love.
      Add a replay system, maybe as an option as saving a replay could add more lag to games.
      Fix bug where you can ally someone who is trying to Engi your building which prevents it from being captured
      New .ini keywords, this would allow for more control over making maps of all types from nurple to Defense maps
      I'll list a few keyword suggestions
      Ability to remove darkness crate as random chance Chrono (superweapon) Crate Size of Nukes/Demo Trucks explosions Force Ore Regrowth on (ignores lobby setting "Ore Regenerates") Crusher Flag for vehicles Helicopter Firing Delay Auto Attack Flag (Tanya for example) Build Speed Multiplier (per unit/building) New Triggers New blank units if modders want to add them to maps. (Like Ferrets Tiberian Alert mod)
       
       
       
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...