Is Allied vs Soviet Balanced?

[MapDesigner]

Soooo,

 

There is one more thing to look for: the Mirage Rhino battle. What do you think about it?

 

as far as single tank test, Rhino do win vs mirage. However, during movment, Rhinos might not auto attack some mirage tanks. Mirage tank   also is faster, has longer range, and is trained faster too (although more expensive than rhinos). How would soviets deal with mirage?

 

I still think thats more balanced than Battle Fortresses LOL  

[DoDger]

1 hour ago, MapDesigner said:

How would soviets deal with mirage?

Desolator ??? can kill mirage tank in a sec!!
plus u can always manual target the mirages which in equal numbers it's ganna be close fight [spceially if the allied is fighting outside it's base where's no base defenses to absorb the damage]

 

[MapDesigner]

16 minutes ago, DoDger said:

Desolator ??? can kill mirage tank in a sec!!
plus u can always manual target the mirages which in equal numbers it's ganna be close fight [spceially if the allied is fighting outside it's base where's no base defenses to absorb the damage]

 

I never play Iraq. Btw, Im thinking desolator should be regular soviet unit thats not special to iraq. anyway, I think im just bad with desos that I never use them anyway, even when available. 

yea im just bad I know

as for manual targeting isnt good when there are more than 10+ tanks (1 mirage only need 3 hits to die anyway). there will be a lot of waste. as opposed to when Rhinoes are atuo-attacking random close mirage tanks, in which case there will be less wasted shots (yes maybe not 0 waste but still).

 

also, to add a little bit, what about allied infantry? dont you think they are much stronger than soviets infantry? I think sovs infantry must have half price

Edited July 18, 2018 by MapDesigner

[DoDger]

1 hour ago, MapDesigner said:

I never play Iraq. Btw, Im thinking desolator should be regular soviet unit thats not special to iraq. anyway, I think im just bad with desos that I never use them anyway, even when available. 

yea im just bad I know

as for manual targeting isnt good when there are more than 10+ tanks (1 mirage only need 3 hits to die anyway). there will be a lot of waste. as opposed to when Rhinoes are atuo-attacking random close mirage tanks, in which case there will be less wasted shots (yes maybe not 0 waste but still).

 

also, to add a little bit, what about allied infantry? dont you think they are much stronger than soviets infantry? I think sovs infantry must have half price

when u say soviet it's basically iraq bcuz of deso's any other soviet is useless specially vs yuri or late game allied

allied inf is more powerful excluding the special unit from each side [Snipers-desos] but if we are going to speak in a realistic way no they shouldn't be half the price bcuz the basic units tier 1 inf 'conscript' is ganna be 50$ each ? when it's 100 each it's already being massed and used as a very good fodder specially in small maps no matter how good the gi's are they are 200 each that will make allied have even lesser chance in small maps than it already is .




 

[MapDesigner]

Miners speed test

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtXSghJiP6M

 

which re-inforces what has already been established by @fir3w0rx that

1. War miner has its obvious gun advantage
2. War miner goes less times to drop ore > thus needs less ore refinaries.
3. Chrono miner brings more continuous/constant cash flow than war miner can.
4. Chrono miner can be arrange and re-aranged more easily than war miner, be it in islands ore even different ore spots in the same island. the war miner will have to walk all the distance to re-arrange and change ore fields.
5. chrono miners can usually easily teleport to safety; However, if there are many chrono miners in one field, it will be hard for all of them to survive using chrono shift. 
6. not sure about HP/Armor comparison yet
7. not entirely sure about the following statement: I think there is maximum teleport distance for Chrono miner, in which case it cant teleport, which will make war miner gather ore faster than chrono miner.

 

Edited July 18, 2018 by MapDesigner

[fir3w0rx]

4 hours ago, MapDesigner said:

1. War miner goes less times to drop ore > thus needs less ore refinaries.

 

That's not why war miners need less refineries, it's because they're patient enough to wait in line to deploy, whereas chrono miners will not even wait for a second and travel to the next nearest available refinery, even if it's at the other end of the map. They'll probably even chrono shift into the next game if they could. I think because chrono miners are paid by the load, while war miners are paid by the hour.

[ore_truck]

@MapDesignerNon-Iraq Soviet is really underpowered compared to other factions (esp Yuri) so you definitely need to start practicing using them. Tesla tanks, demo trucks might have its uses, but you'll find desolators having more uses that could make a lot more difference. 

As for infantry, soviet's infantry are fine. Mass conscripts are deadly and efficient at their current price, crazy ivan is cheap enough already being a re-usable unit that can 1-hit-demolish some buildings and bridges. You can always buy a cloning vats in RA2 if you want 2 infantry for the cost of 1 if you wanna feel them being half-priced.

[JSDS]

On 10/16/2017 at 8:46 PM, CekaJ (Jake) said:

Allied vs Soviet in yuri's revenge is balanced if super weapons are turned off. A lot of the time the specific map dictates which faction has more of an advantage. (I.e. Dune Patrol Soviet map, Reconcile Allied map)  That being said if super weapons are turned on Iraq has more maps overall where they have an advantage over Allied. Probably somewhere around 65 - 75% of maps are soviet. With them off it's closer to 50% Allied maps and 50% percent soviet maps with many maps where it doesn't matter what you pick. 

*one side note though* Since supers are off ban France since they can be overpowered on some maps. Also ban Yuri for the same reason.  Ur left with a balanced game 

ALSO PLAY WITH MULTI ENGINEER ON HOLY SHIT 

False , allied vs soviet in YR is balanced in sw on or off .

allied can stop a soviet rush in start of the game and can hold in long game .

soviets can also stop allied rush and even win in late game ( sw on or off ) 

ic can be useless if soviet forced to used it outside the allied base cuz allied units faster than rhinos ( griz , mirages ) 

chrono is almost deadly for sovs because may make them lose tanks or get their base attacked or even miners chroned ...

deso bombs can be stop by rocketeers or seal battlefortress . but that doesnt make deso bomb useless .

 

[ore_truck]

Soviet (especially if one does not pick Iraq) is imbalance without superweapons (IC) if playing against Yuri.

[MapDesigner]

 Hmmm, 

 

why dont CNCnet update it so that all soviet factions can have desolators? and then give iraq another unit (either crazy ivan or Cosmonaut)

[heldro]

47 minutes ago, MapDesigner said:

 Hmmm, 

 

why dont CNCnet update it so that all soviet factions can have desolators? and then give iraq another unit (either crazy ivan or Cosmonaut)

stop trolling

[Ezer_2000]

25 minutes ago, heldro said:

stop trolling

Please be patient to him, he is only 13.

[FlyingMustache]

6 hours ago, MapDesigner said:

 Hmmm, 

 

why dont CNCnet update it so that all soviet factions can have desolators? and then give iraq another unit (either crazy ivan or Cosmonaut)

Cncnet promised classic gameplay only. There's many balance mods out there that have been created. Best bet is to play with those.

[ore_truck]

13 hours ago, MapDesigner said:

 Hmmm, 

 

why dont CNCnet update it so that all soviet factions can have desolators? and then give iraq another unit (either crazy ivan or Cosmonaut)

Why would CNCnet do that?

And why would Iraq need 2 crazy ivans?

Edited July 21, 2018 by ore_truck

[a1nthony]

On 7/18/2018 at 11:09 AM, MapDesigner said:

I never play Iraq. Btw, Im thinking desolator should be regular soviet unit thats not special to iraq. anyway, I think im just bad with desos that I never use them anyway, even when available. 

yea im just bad I know

as for manual targeting isnt good when there are more than 10+ tanks (1 mirage only need 3 hits to die anyway). there will be a lot of waste. as opposed to when Rhinoes are atuo-attacking random close mirage tanks, in which case there will be less wasted shots (yes maybe not 0 waste but still).

 

also, to add a little bit, what about allied infantry? dont you think they are much stronger than soviets infantry? I think sovs infantry must have half price

 Do you think you half to attack with all of your tanks selected ???

[JSDS]

@MapDesigner without typing too much to expalin .

the answer is : Yes allied vs soviet is ballanced for both factions . 

[Legolas]

do people still discuss these kinds of topics ? lul

[ore_truck]

25 minutes ago, Legolas said:

do people still discuss these kinds of topics ? lul

The OP is new (at least for online MP when he created the thread) and he was asking for help about competitive balance between factions. 

[Legolas]

12 hours ago, ore_truck said:

The OP is new (at least for online MP when he created the thread) and he was asking for help about competitive balance between factions. 

i'm just wondering how he hasn't been convinced after like 300 posts...

[Ford (retired)]

Ah typical RA2/YR whiners xD

 

I personally don't think RA2 has enough players that play at a top mechanical skill-level to actually determine the strength of a faction. Most of the time player skill will be the deciding factor. Also quite frankly, banning stuff (factions, SW, etc.) in an RTS is retarded. The only things that should ever be restricted is the map pool.

Now to reply to a post that is unrelated

On 7/18/2018 at 8:50 AM, MapDesigner said:

Soooo,

 

There is one more thing to look for: the Mirage Rhino battle. What do you think about it?

 

as far as single tank test, Rhino do win vs mirage. However, during movment, Rhinos might not auto attack some mirage tanks. Mirage tank   also is faster, has longer range, and is trained faster too (although more expensive than rhinos). How would soviets deal with mirage?

I think people only consider combat-stat comparisons with units and NOT macro related stats and utility (build time multiplier, tech requirement). How long does each player have to build said units? How much tempo do I need to sacrifice in order to build this unit? When can i start building this unit?

Edited July 26, 2018 by AndrewFord

[MapDesigner]

someone Compare Prism vs Tesla Pls for reference 

[Hunk]

Sovs are better because they own sov maps.. and have a shot on allied maps.

Its cool to see how u guys analyze every single detail of the game, but in the end its quickness and quick reactions that make the difference, fooling your enemy with traps, make unexpected moves, etc..

[Kikematamitos]

On ‎9‎/‎5‎/‎2017 at 7:27 AM, MapDesigner said:

Hello,

 

it seems to me that allies are much more powerful than the soviets are. Here are the reasons:

 

1. Air planes are much faster than soviet Kirov airship. Construction yard can be easily killed with couple of Allied radars. Nobody do that in the time he sped the money to make that airplanes you can kill him with tanks. 
2. They have superior vision and map control with both spy satellite and gap generator. Imo the gab generator should have been for the soviets to balance the spy satélite. Nobody spend in that sat when you scout with dogs the point of this game is put the money in units like tanks, maybe just in some special maps this works 
3. Their naval units can invade lands and clear the shores to help deploying troops from transports. Yes destroyers can do a lot in early game in island maps but also if you are soviet a single sub with a sea scorpion can take it down, also tanks kill destroyers easy. 

Their airship carrier can defend itself much better than Dreadnought Yes but Dreadnought have area damage and can destroy many dolphins or naval if the missiles hit the target airship carrier can attack only a single unit and attack slower

1. Prism tanks can outrange most defenses. Yes apocalypse is good but cannot attack from afar. Make rhinos vs prisma almost nobody make to much prisma because mirages are better. 
2. Chrono miner can teleport to any refinery. This make re-arrangment and retreat much easier. Yes but they can't attack and take less ore. 

that is basically the main reason. All of the above makes the allies capable of out maneuvering the soviets. yes soviets are strong but are quite static and cannot move fast (appocalypse + airship). rockies, harriers, and prism tanks can out maneuver the soviet units.

 

what do you think? I think you need to play vs experienced players that can teach you basic things. 

 

[total_annihilationx666]

The Allies have the Battle Fortress which can crush tanks & walls, lethal against vehicles _&_ air —the Soviets have no counterpart & are severely outclassed —just 3 of them with garrisoned Guardian GI's can stave off attacks to a base [in single-player.] Also Allied Robot Tanks in 15+ are the answer to Yuri's psychic technology & can be pivotal against an Easy Enemy for instance.

[FlyingMustache]

8 hours ago, laserbeak said:

The Allies have the Battle Fortress which can crush tanks & walls, lethal against vehicles _&_ air —the Soviets have no counterpart & are severely outclassed —just 3 of them with garrisoned Guardian GI's can stave off attacks to a base [in single-player.] Also Allied Robot Tanks in 15+ are the answer to Yuri's psychic technology & can be pivotal against an Easy Enemy for instance.

Things work out differently against players than they do against computer opponents.