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MapDesigner

Is Allied vs Soviet Balanced?

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Hello,

 

it seems to me that allies are much more powerful than the soviets are. Here are the reasons:

 

  1. Air planes are much faster than soviet Kirov airship. Construction yard can be easily killed with couple of Allied radars.
  2. They have superior vision and map control with both spy satellite and gap generator. Imo the gab generator should have been for the soviets to balance the spy satelite.
  3. Their naval units can invade lands and clear the shores to help deploying troops from transports. 
  4. Their airship carrier can defend itself much better than Dreadnought 
  5. Prism tanks can outrange most defenses. Yes apocalypse is good but cannot attack from afar.
  6. Chrono miner can teleport to any refinery. This make re-arrangment and retreat much easier.

that is basically the main reason. All of the above makes the allies capable of out maneuvering the soviets. yes soviets are strong but are quite static and cannot move fast (appocalypse + airship). rockies, harriers, and prism tanks can out maneuver the soviet units.

 

what do you think?

Edited by MapDesigner

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45 minutes ago, MapDesigner said:

Air planes are much faster than soviet Kirov airship. Construction yard can be easily killed with couple of Allied radars.

Kirovs can take more of a beating and their bombs deal more damage.

45 minutes ago, MapDesigner said:

They have superior vision and map control with both spy satellite and gap generator. Imo the gab generator should have been for the soviets to balance the spy satelite.

In RA2, the Soviets had a Psychic Sensor, which not only showed which enemy units intended to go in its immediate radius, but also detected spies. In YR, they have the Spy Plane, which is available at tier 2.

45 minutes ago, MapDesigner said:

Their naval units can invade lands and clear the shores to help deploying troops from transports. 

Sea Scorpions can do so to a degree, but Dreadnoughts are more of a mainstay of sea-to-land warfare, and Soviet Amphibious Transports are tougher than Allied ones (a trait shared later with Yuri's equivalent).

45 minutes ago, MapDesigner said:

Prism tanks can outrange most defenses.

So can V3s and Siege Choppers.

45 minutes ago, MapDesigner said:

Chrono miner can teleport to any refinery. This make re-arrangment and retreat much easier.

They also carry considerably less ore ($500 as opposed to $700 from War Miners, not counting gems).

Edited by Plokite_Wolf

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hi.

ok you think allieds are superior to sovs? the thing you're talking about is just against what people have been arguing about in the past 17 years(sovs > allieds)

first of all, you have to agree on the fact that sov = tough straight fighting and allied = hit and run(early game) and mixture(late game and tech)

if a player is playing a certain faction in a very decent level, it doesn't mean the faction is op or it's better than the other factions.(sure there are some features that we can argue about them like sov>korea/america[ra2] and yuri > sov[YR] but saying allied > sov is non sense imo in both games)

ok here let me explain about the things that you mentioned why allieds are better than soviets:

1.yes, harriers/black eagles are cheaper than kirov and also faster but how much you need to invest economy on jets to get MCV and how much for kirov?

it's true that jets can move faster but in the best condition if you want to kill the conyard with jets, you'll need at least 7200$(funds needed for 6 black eagles) while you'll only need 2000$ for a kirov.jets are fast and thats the only thing that makes them superior to kirovs. but,jets are very easy to take out with AAs while it's too hard to take out a kirov with AAs.if you keep sending a kirov and wait in base so that it'd die sure kirov is useless, but combining it with some attacks and killing his AAs meanwhile could usually help you make a lot of damage in his base.and don't remember that if you lose a kirov, you lose 2k but if lose 6 jets(to kill the conyard) it costs you 7.2k(which is usually most likely to have some of your jets killed)

2.it's true that allieds have a better vision over the map, due to the fact that they use air units most often and this helps them to scout the map.BUT, the spy satelite that you're talking about is never used in pro games(except for when your afc has been spied or scouting the map was too tough like in FFA games).about gap generators being for sovs, it's even more non sense.allied is like trash in the early game if you can't play smart enough. they need a tough tech support and a gap is a good option.

3&4.i totally agree that allied navy is op, but have you ever compared dread to air craft carrier? in the amount of time in which an air craft carrier would destroy a refinery/warfactory, dread can easily kill 3-4 structures of the same type(dreads have faster reloads and have stronger missiles).

on the other hand, talking about them defending themselves is a useless discussion. since destroyers/subs/squids/dolphins can take out both in a very short time when there are a few nums of them.however, i agree that in some uniqe situations ACCs defense can be useful(which is not the clue why we make them)

5. again we go back to what i said earlier. allieds have weaker armor but special tools. sovs on the other hand, are more about direct fight. and it's been proven that 180 apocs can kill 180 prisms in a direct fight(according to a video that i have seen in youtube). if the range is what you're arguing about, v3 launchers are for soviets and have a better range than prisms.

6. this is totally wrong imo. if the other ref is near the ore yes sure it's effective BUT , it's a MUST for allieds to have more refineries than soviets due to the fact that soviet miners are always good with 4-6 miners for each. allied miners on the other hand, should have 1 ref for each 2-3 of them because of their small capacity and wait time for teleport(which makes you go low on cash consistently. ===> this favors sovs

 

there are still many facts that why sovs can be better than allieds most of the time like iron curtain, faster 1st from wf, flaks > ifvs/patriots etc etc 

but as i can see, you're new to this game and the fact that why you made this topic  was simply because you played a better player as allied.

http://xwis.net/forums/index.php/topic/174385-sovs-and-allies-the-official-comparison/

you can take a look at the link above which is about allied and sov comparison in ra2, but many features are the same in YR so it should be helpful.

hopefully this helps

 

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Blazer,

Regarding topic 5.

I think that you need to consider the true $ ratio's.
And include more advanced commands like attack+move.

Also, revert the role's. 120 apocs vs 175 prisms. Then 175 prisms against 120 apocs.

Other then that. I am happy someone is putting up those kind of video's.
 

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120 apocs > 120 prisms if the person controlling prisms have no idea what to do maybe.

prisms need to be forced to hit and run.

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39 minutes ago, Marsh said:

120 apocs > 120 prisms if the person controlling prisms have no idea what to do maybe.

prisms need to be forced to hit and run.

Even if they do they still lose. Prisms weren't meant to take on heavy armor units alone. We've tested this scenario. Maybe elite prisms vs elite apocs would be different.

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4 hours ago, Plokite_Wolf said:

Kirovs can take more of a beating and their bombs deal more damage.

In RA2, the Soviets had a Psychic Sensor, which not only showed which enemy units intended to go in its immediate radius, but also detected spies. In YR, they have the Spy Plane, which is available at tier 2.

Sea Scorpions can do so to a degree, but Dreadnoughts are more of a mainstay of sea-to-land warfare, and Soviet Amphibious Transports are tougher than Allied ones (a trait shared later with Yuri's equivalent).

So can V3s and Siege Choppers.

They also carry considerably less ore ($500 as opposed to $700 from War Miners, not counting gems).

War miners cary 1000 opposed to 500 for chrono miners. Makes sense since war miners travel twice as far.

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dont think. you guys realize the op is either noob or troll lol

every point listed for why allies > sovs is pretty much worthless

Edited by scalpem
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11 hours ago, MapDesigner said:

 

 

  1. Air planes are much faster than soviet Kirov airship. Construction yard can be easily killed with couple of Allied radars.
  2. They have superior vision and map control with both spy satellite and gap generator. Imo the gab generator should have been for the soviets to balance the spy satelite.
  3. Their naval units can invade lands and clear the shores to help deploying troops from transports. 
  4. Their airship carrier can defend itself much better than Dreadnought 
  5. Prism tanks can outrange most defenses. Yes apocalypse is good but cannot attack from afar.
  6. Chrono miner can teleport to any refinery. This make re-arrangment and retreat much easier.

 

1. That's because Allied units are supposed to be fast and can do hit and runs. Soviet kirovs act like their ground vehicles, slow moving behemoth that has tons of armor and deadly once it gets close to your buildings.

2. It has always been that way since RA1, allies are supposed to be advantage in surveillance and cloaking their base.

3. If you're talking about the Destroyer's ability to attack land targets, then you forgot to mention about how soviet subs have a more useful advantage: stealth.

4. Dreadnoughts do more damage overall, and if the hornets get shot down (which is always the case), it's a longer wait than rearming dreadnought missiles.

5. V3 launchers have the best land range.

6. The allies are supposed to be more mobile than the soviet to make up for their weaker tanks early in the game.

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13 hours ago, MapDesigner said:

Is Allied vs Soviet Balanced?

No, the Allies are superior. They have 4 decent factions: USA, Korea, Great Britain and France. Soviets only have one - Iraq. The only time that the game becomes 100% balanced is in the long run (50+ games) and factions/countries and maps are randomized.

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11 hours ago, X3M said:

Blazer,

Regarding topic 5.

I think that you need to consider the true $ ratio's.
And include more advanced commands like attack+move.

Also, revert the role's. 120 apocs vs 175 prisms. Then 175 prisms against 120 apocs.

Other then that. I am happy someone is putting up those kind of video's.
 

yea, i'm not totally sure about the numbers since they were balanced according to their prices. so actually there should be more numbers of prisms and apocs owned them.(btw the vids are not mine)

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Each has their own strengths and weaknesses.  You'll find actually that it's usually the player more than the country that decides the game.  Most players tend to think the faction they don't play with is stronger mainly because they're sour when they lose and would like to find excuses

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31 minutes ago, Gun_Man said:

Each has their own strengths and weaknesses.  You'll find actually that it's usually the player more than the country that decides the game.  Most players tend to think the faction they don't play with is stronger mainly because they're sour when they lose and would like to find excuses

Not necessarily. Fireworks is right. Allies have 4 viable nations while sovs only have 1. And in 1v1, allies usually have no choice but to.pick America due to the sheer strength of early game sovs. Let's not forget Yuri. 

To the original poster, this game does not have balanced factions. If you don't mind America and Iraq being the choices for top tier games 90% of the time, then no problem! Oh, and yuri is always banned. Good luck!

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I forgot to mention what probably is the ultimate reason why Air craft carrier is better than dread: that hornet airplane gives vision and can discover enemy base for you, but dreadnoughts missiles on the other hand do not give any vision. I was surprised to find this out. V3 rocket launcher missiles do give vision along their path. yes dreads are better damage dealers than ACC and can kill many infantry, but you cant attack the fog (as far as I know) so they need something else for vision. I always have to send some scout unit with them (seige chopper), which is quite expensive for scout. On the other hand, hornet is for free.

On 9/5/2017 at 3:13 PM, Plokite_Wolf said:

Kirovs can take more of a beating and their bombs deal more damage.

In RA2, the Soviets had a Psychic Sensor, which not only showed which enemy units intended to go in its immediate radius, but also detected spies. In YR, they have the Spy Plane, which is available at tier 2.

Sea Scorpions can do so to a degree, but Dreadnoughts are more of a mainstay of sea-to-land warfare, and Soviet Amphibious Transports are tougher than Allied ones (a trait shared later with Yuri's equivalent).

So can V3s and Siege Choppers.

They also carry considerably less ore ($500 as opposed to $700 from War Miners, not counting gems).

 

the problem is when kirov get cought. harriers can change path and run away if they see flak tracks coming. kirovs are just too slow. the soviet will have to bring a force to defend it or will have to lose it

@spy plane: spy plane is the worst vision gain of the game. many times the plane comes from the wrong side of the map and is destroyed by other camps. If you compare this to the Yuris radar vision, you will see Yuris is much much superior. Yuri can instantly reveal the gap generator and destroy it with his missles. yes his ships are bad but his reveal is much better than a spy plane.

@Amphibious transport I didnt know that O_O

@V3 see below

@sieage choppers are quite good: I cant argue here.

@miners: I think war miners give 1000 ore if im not mistaken

On 9/5/2017 at 3:30 PM, Blazer said:

hi.

ok you think allieds are superior to sovs? the thing you're talking about is just against what people have been arguing about in the past 17 years(sovs > allieds)

first of all, you have to agree on the fact that sov = tough straight fighting and allied = hit and run(early game) and mixture(late game and tech)

if a player is playing a certain faction in a very decent level, it doesn't mean the faction is op or it's better than the other factions.(sure there are some features that we can argue about them like sov>korea/america[ra2] and yuri > sov[YR] but saying allied > sov is non sense imo in both games)

ok here let me explain about the things that you mentioned why allieds are better than soviets:

1.yes, harriers/black eagles are cheaper than kirov and also faster but how much you need to invest economy on jets to get MCV and how much for kirov?

it's true that jets can move faster but in the best condition if you want to kill the conyard with jets, you'll need at least 7200$(funds needed for 6 black eagles) while you'll only need 2000$ for a kirov.jets are fast and thats the only thing that makes them superior to kirovs. but,jets are very easy to take out with AAs while it's too hard to take out a kirov with AAs.if you keep sending a kirov and wait in base so that it'd die sure kirov is useless, but combining it with some attacks and killing his AAs meanwhile could usually help you make a lot of damage in his base.and don't remember that if you lose a kirov, you lose 2k but if lose 6 jets(to kill the conyard) it costs you 7.2k(which is usually most likely to have some of your jets killed)

2.it's true that allieds have a better vision over the map, due to the fact that they use air units most often and this helps them to scout the map.BUT, the spy satelite that you're talking about is never used in pro games(except for when your afc has been spied or scouting the map was too tough like in FFA games).about gap generators being for sovs, it's even more non sense.allied is like trash in the early game if you can't play smart enough. they need a tough tech support and a gap is a good option.

3&4.i totally agree that allied navy is op, but have you ever compared dread to air craft carrier? in the amount of time in which an air craft carrier would destroy a refinery/warfactory, dread can easily kill 3-4 structures of the same type(dreads have faster reloads and have stronger missiles).

on the other hand, talking about them defending themselves is a useless discussion. since destroyers/subs/squids/dolphins can take out both in a very short time when there are a few nums of them.however, i agree that in some uniqe situations ACCs defense can be useful(which is not the clue why we make them)

5. again we go back to what i said earlier. allieds have weaker armor but special tools. sovs on the other hand, are more about direct fight. and it's been proven that 180 apocs can kill 180 prisms in a direct fight(according to a video that i have seen in youtube). if the range is what you're arguing about, v3 launchers are for soviets and have a better range than prisms.

6. this is totally wrong imo. if the other ref is near the ore yes sure it's effective BUT , it's a MUST for allieds to have more refineries than soviets due to the fact that soviet miners are always good with 4-6 miners for each. allied miners on the other hand, should have 1 ref for each 2-3 of them because of their small capacity and wait time for teleport(which makes you go low on cash consistently. ===> this favors sovs

 

there are still many facts that why sovs can be better than allieds most of the time like iron curtain, faster 1st from wf, flaks > ifvs/patriots etc etc 

but as i can see, you're new to this game and the fact that why you made this topic  was simply because you played a better player as allied.

http://xwis.net/forums/index.php/topic/174385-sovs-and-allies-the-official-comparison/

you can take a look at the link above which is about allied and sov comparison in ra2, but many features are the same in YR so it should be helpful.

hopefully this helps

 

@all people against my thought: what matter is the argument they have,

@ Allies are hit and run = totally agree. My point is that hit and run tactics are superior to a full scale assault due to being much cheaper and more effecient. always forcing the opponent to re-act is what a good player want. that is why I think allies are imbalance becuz they can easily out maneuver their opponent. 

@harriers will die, yes but they would accomplish mission. even spending 12k for something is ok to me. when I destroy ConYard + WarFactory I kind of won the game already. but I have striked with kirovs before and sometimes even attacking with 6 can fail

@Allies have better vision: are you saying sov have early game so allies must have late game? I think they both should have options for early and late game: not identical but something.

@ACC vs Dread see above (first lines of this post)

@V3 better range than prism:  V3 cant be compared to prism tank. Prism tank has guaranteed strike. V3 only work in masses. I needed at least 10 V3's just to do damage to soviet enemy. probably Yuri is hard too. Dreadnought is just much better faster and more damage than v3. v3 is just bad. yes it can work sometimes but it is quite pathetic unit (just 1 harrier missles and shes dead). the only advantage V3 will have vs dreadnought is having vision on the rocket path. if V3 can work, it must be just becuz allies AA sucks (I dont think im the only one who think flak canons are OP compared to allies tower) I am not sure about the damage output exactly, but prism does 3 attacks for 2 from v3 launcher. the wiki also says it does more damage, but that probably differs depending on the target (maybe v3 does more damage to buildings or something? not too sure wiki says prism damage is 100 while v3's is 50)

@miners dis-advantage: well you have a point here. maybe this makes them even then. the biggest problem being refineries costing space.

also I checked the link you gave.  it doesnt directly answer my points. it also assumes Soviets has to be iraq and using desolator (I guess becuz most pros do use it and its ok he brought it). the sad thing though,  was that he is bringing desolator in almost every things. seals? deso is counter. Chrono legioners? deso, anything? deso is still counter.

He still mentioned very important point which is my point here: that allies have better late game, and have more options too. if you look at the support structures here, you will see allies have 8 options while soviets have 6.

I am not saying they have to be identical. I am saying when allies have something, soviets should also have another thing. and that they also should have something for vision control. it doesn't have to be a copy of what allies have.

I also found something interesting: that someone there claiming he was top allies player in the ladder and he does not agree with the claims of the OP there and that soviets are not over powered.

On 9/5/2017 at 5:54 PM, Lud0wig said:

Too much to read lol

XD

On 9/6/2017 at 1:48 AM, ore_truck said:

1. That's because Allied units are supposed to be fast and can do hit and runs. Soviet kirovs act like their ground vehicles, slow moving behemoth that has tons of armor and deadly once it gets close to your buildings.

2. It has always been that way since RA1, allies are supposed to be advantage in surveillance and cloaking their base.

3. If you're talking about the Destroyer's ability to attack land targets, then you forgot to mention about how soviet subs have a more useful advantage: stealth.

4. Dreadnoughts do more damage overall, and if the hornets get shot down (which is always the case), it's a longer wait than rearming dreadnought missiles.

5. V3 launchers have the best land range.

6. The allies are supposed to be more mobile than the soviet to make up for their weaker tanks early in the game.

@ hit and run: sure. as far as I know, hit and run is better than full assault due being much cheaper and much more efficient. thats Why I said that reason why ally are imbalanced becuz they can out maneuver with their huge speed for many of their units

@V3 being better range: see my comment on blazer above. tl;dr prism is just better than V3 launcher. 

@ but they have battle fortress late game. why would they have to have spy satelite too and gap generator? why is it all good vision techniques belong to the allies?

On 9/6/2017 at 3:41 AM, fir3w0rx said:

No, the Allies are superior. They have 4 decent factions: USA, Korea, Great Britain and France. Soviets only have one - Iraq. The only time that the game becomes 100% balanced is in the long run (50+ games) and factions/countries and maps are randomized.

ummm not too sure. I still was talking just about the faction disregard special unit availabilities. I think tesla tank is ok as well, not just the desolator. eitherway, what would happen if we assume no one has any specialty? i.e. like most missions in campaigns. 

Edited by MapDesigner
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2 hours ago, MapDesigner said:

Yuri can instantly reveal the gap generator and destroy it with his missles. yes his ships are bad but his reveal is much better than a spy plane

You call the most OP ship in the game bad? :blink:

 

On 05. 09. 2017. at 8:24 PM, heldro said:

War miners cary 1000 opposed to 500 for chrono miners.

 

2 hours ago, MapDesigner said:

I think war miners give 1000 ore if im not mistaken

My mistake.

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2 hours ago, MapDesigner said:

the problem is when kirov get cought. harriers can change path and run away if they see flak tracks coming. kirovs are just too slow. the soviet will have to bring a force to defend it or will have to lose it

 

2 hours ago, MapDesigner said:

@harriers will die, yes but they would accomplish mission. even spending 12k for something is ok to me. when I destroy ConYard + WarFactory I kind of won the game already. but I have striked with kirovs before and sometimes even attacking with 6 can fail

Good players won't send in their kirov airships if the route is well-defended that requires it to "change path and run away", you send in your kirovs once you sure the way is clear (off course you need ground forces to protect to kirov so the enemy won't focus too much on anti air and the kirov forces the enemy to spend money on anti-air, meaning you have less ground resisntance). Basically, kirovs forces your enemy to go out of base to shoot them down because if a full health kirov is near their base "kirovs will die, yes but they would accomplish mission. even spending a lot for those kirovs is ok to me" (I usually build one just to scare them). Also, if you have multiple airships, order them to attack different buildings, but the important ones off course!.

2 hours ago, MapDesigner said:

@spy plane: spy plane is the worst vision gain of the game. many times the plane comes from the wrong side of the map and is destroyed by other camps. If you compare this to the Yuris radar vision, you will see Yuris is much much superior. Yuri can instantly reveal the gap generator and destroy it with his missles. yes his ships are bad but his reveal is much better than a spy plane.

Spy plane is not useless at all, just because it is an inferior map reveal method doesn't mean it is useless. If you're having trouble with spy planes, then you're doing it wrong.

2 hours ago, MapDesigner said:

@all people against my thought: what matter is the argument they have,

I don't understand what you are trying to say here but there is nothing bad if people here are against your thoughts.

2 hours ago, MapDesigner said:

@Allies have better vision: are you saying sov have early game so allies must have late game? I think they both should have options for early and late game: not identical but something.

are you saying allies better vision is because of the spy satellite (since you mentioned late game)? because allies doesn't need that, people usually scout most of the map with rocketeers early in the game, the spy sat uplink is just a bonus "scout" for the late game, and unless you're playing freaking huge maps or ffa, people don't need spy satellite uplink if they scouted well with rocketeers, the spy satellite would only risk their shrouds getting reset and waste some energy.

 

2 hours ago, MapDesigner said:

@V3 better range than prism:  V3 cant be compared to prism tank. Prism tank has guaranteed strike. V3 only work in masses.

You were saying about prisms can outrange most defenses without acknowledging anything about the V3s. The point is: at least soviet does have a long range base defense killer. We're not saying V3s are better than prism tanks, but just because it's worse doesn't mean it is entirely useless. Remember, soviet has tank advantage so they don't need a superior long range like the prism tank. The allies send their crappy grizzlies and tank destroyers while their prism tanks do a good long range support. Soviets have their crappy V3 launchers but their superior tanks does the main job.

2 hours ago, MapDesigner said:

@ but they have battle fortress late game. why would they have to have spy satelite too and gap generator? why is it all good vision techniques belong to the allies?

the allies are supposed to be better in vision techniques, the real question here is why is the allies have powerful units? I agree the battle fortress does give them a huge tank advantage . totally forgot about those since I played RA2 multiplayer more than YR because how I dislike battle fortress and guardian GIs, they made soviet's supposedly supremacy on the ground easily rivaled. the only thing that's holding them back is their price tag. I always preferred it's the soviets who should have the most powerful ground unit and is only held back by its cost (and maybe speed). I didn't completely disagree with you about Allies being too powerful compared to the Soviets. They are very powerful in late games and you are right about hit and runs being too powerful.

I do have doubts when people say Allies and Soviet are balanced in RA2, it's just that the reasons why you said allies are better are not good examples, I mean if you talked about how allied late-units allow them to go toe-to-toe with soviet's tank and numerical superiority while still keeping their surveillance, air power, base-cloaking, instantaneous traveling, hit and run, etc advantage, I would say you give good arguments but you mostly complained about advantages the allies should have like how they shouldn't have chrono-mining, superior scout and gap generators and the soviets should have them instead(lol)... and then you talked about the factions are not balanced because dreadnaught missiles can't reveal shroud or how it sucks at defending itself and destroyer's ability to shoot land makes allies overpowered???

PS you might find some errors and contradictions just ignore them it's 6 AM and im tired...

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7 hours ago, MapDesigner said:

@ Allies are hit and run = totally agree. My point is that hit and run tactics are superior to a full scale assault due to being much cheaper and more effecient. always forcing the opponent to re-act is what a good player want. that is why I think allies are imbalance becuz they can easily out maneuver their opponent. 

pro sovs are never going to let you kill their stuff with harriers.it's possible sometimes with blackeagles, but still very hard to do it against pro players.kirov succeed in doing damage more imo.(all is about your control in both cases)

 

8 hours ago, MapDesigner said:

@Allies have better vision: are you saying sov have early game so allies must have late game? I think they both should have options for early and late game: not identical but something

sovs have a big advantage in the early game due to many facts. in the late game also, there are a lot of maps that sovs are again favored with their op sw.there's nothing there that really says sovs have to win the early game and allieds should win the late game.(it's all about your  control!)

 

8 hours ago, MapDesigner said:

@ACC vs Dread see above (first lines of this post)

very useless thing to talk about because we already said the purpose for making ACCs/Dreadnoughts is not doing some **** anti navy attack.

 

8 hours ago, MapDesigner said:

@V3 better range than prism:  V3 cant be compared to prism tank. Prism tank has guaranteed strike. V3 only work in masses. I needed at least 10 V3's just to do damage to soviet enemy. probably Yuri is hard too. Dreadnought is just much better faster and more damage than v3. v3 is just bad. yes it can work sometimes but it is quite pathetic unit (just 1 harrier missles and shes dead). the only advantage V3 will have vs dreadnought is having vision on the rocket path. if V3 can work, it must be just becuz allies AA sucks (I dont think im the only one who think flak canons are OP compared to allies tower) I am not sure about the damage output exactly, but prism does 3 attacks for 2 from v3 launcher. the wiki also says it does more damage, but that probably differs depending on the target (maybe v3 does more damage to buildings or something? not too sure wiki says prism damage is 100 while v3's is 50)

yes we can't compare v3 with prism tanks since v3 is a tire 2 unit and prism is tier 3. so prisms should be better overall since they can be also used in tank fights. you don't need 10 v3s to do something people don't usually use more than 4-5 v3s to deal damage to the enemy base since it's enough90% of the time. a harrier kills a v3 in 1 shot? i thought it kills a prism in 1 shot also! again v3 vs dread is another useless thing to mention. v3s are tier 2 and dreads are the strongest anti land tier3 units.and about v3 and prism damaga: i haven't tried to see if their damage is the smae, but prism attack is no way 2x than v3 attack. the only adv for prism is that it's attack can't be countered while v3 missiles can be countered with AA. plus, they have a faster reload(tier3)

 

8 hours ago, MapDesigner said:

also I checked the link you gave.  it doesnt directly answer my points. it also assumes Soviets has to be iraq and using desolator (I guess becuz most pros do use it and its ok he brought it). the sad thing though,  was that he is bringing desolator in almost every things. seals? deso is counter. Chrono legioners? deso, anything? deso is still counter.

idk why that link couldn't help you out, but sov - iraq = nothing. desos are more important than tanks for sovs against allied/yuri.it's true that it's a very tough unit, but it can be countered with many ways in YR(that article was about ra2)

 

8 hours ago, MapDesigner said:

I am not saying they have to be identical. I am saying when allies have something, soviets should also have another thing. and that they also should have something for vision control. it doesn't have to be a copy of what allies have.

I also found something interesting: that someone there claiming he was top allies player in the ladder and he does not agree with the claims of the OP there and that soviets are not over powered.

if you'd have enough knowledge of the game, you'd know that sov doesn't need anymore! in fact, some features should be even reduced like deso power and ic regen time.now that you claim that allieds are op, how many games can you win a pro sov with allied in a series?tbh with what i've read in your posts, i actually think 0 and the series is going to be over in less than 20 mins. it's true that allieds have  good hit and run and better tech units, but they require so much skill to use. sov isn't as hard to master.

a top sov can always win a top allied in series guaranteed(ra2). in YR, they're somehow same but sovs still have some adv again.

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[CMIN] ; Chrono Miner
Strength=1000
Armor=medium
Harvester=yes
Storage=20

[HARV] ;War-Miner
Strength=1000
Armor=medium
Harvester=yes
Storage=40

Source: rulesmd.ini (game files). As you can see above the storage of the war miner is twice of the Chrono miner.

 

[V3Cluster] ;V3 Missile
Damage=80
ROF=80
Range=6
Speed=20

[Comet] ;Prism Beam Weapon (for the tank)
Damage=100
ROF=100
Range=10
Speed=40

Source: rulesmd.ini (game files). As you can see above the Prism tank deals 20 points of more damage per shot than a v3 missile.

 

[LCRF] ; Allied Landing Craft
Strength=300
Armor=light

[SAPC] ; Soviet Landing Craft
Strength=300
Armor=heavy

[YHVR] ; Yuri Landing Craft
Strength=300
Armor=heavy

Source: rulesmd.ini (game files). As you can see above the, all the naval transports have the same amount of hitpoints, however, the armour of both the Soviet & Yuri transports is set to heavy.

Edited by FReQuEnZy
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1 hour ago, FReQuEnZy said:

 

 

[V3Cluster] ;V3 Missile
Damage=80
ROF=80
Range=6
Speed=20

[Comet] ;Prism Beam Weapon (for the tank)
Damage=100
ROF=100
Range=10
Speed=40

Source: rulesmd.ini (game files). As you can see above the Prism tank deals 20 points of more damage per shot than a v3 missile.

 

 

Question.  I have no experience with this kinda thing.  We all know that v3 has more range than a prism tank.  Why is the prism range 10 while the v3 is 6?

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1 hour ago, Gun_Man said:

Question.  I have no experience with this kinda thing.  We all know that v3 has more range than a prism tank.  Why is the prism range 10 while the v3 is 6?

There's two parts to the v3 weapon. The listing above is the minimum range. In another part, it lists the maximum range as 18

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56 minutes ago, Gun_Man said:

Question.  I have no experience with this kinda thing.  We all know that v3 has more range than a prism tank.  Why is the prism range 10 while the v3 is 6?

[v3cluster] really is unused stuff. Frequenzy copyied the wrong stuff from ini

the really used data is (rulesmd.ini, i hope ver. 1.001 one):

; V3 Rocket launcher, or Chu-chu Rocket
[V3]
UIName=Name:V3
Name=V3 Launcher    ;locked
Category=AFV
Prerequisite=NAWEAP,NARADR
Primary=V3Launcher
CanPassiveAquire=no ; Won't try to pick up own targets
Spawns=V3ROCKET

[General]
; V3 Rocket control ;SJM
V3RocketPauseFrames=0    ; How many frames the rocket pauses on the launcher before tilting
V3RocketTiltFrames=60    ; How many frames it takes for the V3 rocket to tilt to firing position
V3RocketPitchInitial=0.21; Starting pitch of the rocket before tilting up (0=horizontal,1=vertical)
V3RocketPitchFinal=0.5   ; Ending pitch of the rocket after tilting up; now it fires
V3RocketTurnRate=0.05    ; Pitch maneuverability of rocket in air.  Adjust by trial and error.
V3RocketRaiseRate=1		;GEF How much the missile will raise each turn on the launcher (for Cruise Missile only)
V3RocketAcceleration=0.4 ; This much is added to the rocket's velocity each frame during launch
V3RocketAltitude=768     ; Cruising altitude in leptons: at this height rocket BEGINS leveling off
V3RocketDamage=200       ; Exploding V3 does this much damage (at center of explosion, presumably).
V3RocketEliteDamage=400       ; Exploding V3 does this much damage (at center of explosion, presumably).
V3RocketBodyLength=256   ; The body of the rocket is this many leptons long
V3RocketLazyCurve=yes    ; The rocket's path is a big, lazy curve.  V3 yes.  DMisl no.
V3RocketType=V3ROCKET

; V3's rangefinder virtual weapon
[V3Launcher]
Damage=1
ROF=150
Range=18
MinimumRange=5
Spawner=yes
Projectile=InvisibleHigh
Speed=10
Warhead=Special

[CombatDamage]
...
V3Warhead=V3WH       ; this is the warhead on a V3 Rocket
DMislWarhead=DMISLWH ; this is the warhead on a DredMissile
V3EliteWarhead=V3EWH



; high explosive (shrapnel) -- V3 Rocket warhead
[V3WH]
CellSpread=1
PercentAtMax=.25
Wall=yes
Wood=yes
Verses=100%,90%,80%,90%,70%,70%,100%,100%,50%,80%,0%
Conventional=yes
Rocker=yes
InfDeath=2
AnimList=XGRYSML1,XGRYSML2,EXPLOSML,XGRYMED1,XGRYMED2,EXPLOMED,EXPLOLRG,TWLT070
Deform=10%
DeformThreshhold=300
Tiberium=yes
Sparky=no
Bright=yes
ProneDamage=70%     ; Presumes air burst

; high explosive (shrapnel) -- V3 Rocket warhead when elite
[V3EWH]
CellSpread=2
PercentAtMax=.5
Wall=yes
Wood=yes
Verses=100%,90%,80%,80%,70%,70%,100%,75%,50%,80%,0%
Conventional=yes
Rocker=yes
InfDeath=2
;AnimList=XGRYSML1,XGRYSML2,EXPLOSML,XGRYMED1,XGRYMED2,EXPLOMED,EXPLOLRG,TWLT070
AnimList=MININUKE
Tiberium=yes
Sparky=no
Bright=yes
ProneDamage=70%     ; Presumes air burst

"As you can see above" MinRange is 5, MaxRange is 18, Dmg is 200, and EliteDmg is 400.

Damage ingame counts by their warheads multiplier described in "Verses" sequentially, by armor types. More here http://modenc.renegadeprojects.com/Armor_types

In few words: Verses=100%,90%,80%,80%,70%,70%,100%,75%,50%,80%,0%

White - dmg to Infantry,

Yellow - dmg to Vehicles,

Red - dmg to buildings.

I hope you understood me.

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Yeah, the V3 section is confusing and hackish.

Edited by FReQuEnZy
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